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From: Matthew Russotto on 12 May 2010 23:20
In article <0cbd5783-6169-4364-ab23-8e3290929cf1(a)k2g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
Larry G <gross.larry(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>until I know more, I'm not going to disagree.... but if true - and we
>really don't have a way to deal with this kind of blowout if the
>preventor does fail - then the whole idea of whether or not we should
>be drilling under those conditions is a question. How many more spills
>like this do we want?

If your standard is zero risk, you can't accomplish anything at all.
--
The problem with socialism is there's always
someone with less ability and more need.
From: Larry G on 13 May 2010 07:18
On May 12, 11:20 pm, russo...(a)grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew Russotto)
wrote:
> In article <0cbd5783-6169-4364-ab23-8e3290929...(a)k2g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
> Larry G  <gross.la...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >until I know more, I'm not going to disagree....  but if true - and we
> >really don't have a way to deal with this kind of blowout if the
> >preventor does fail - then the whole idea of whether or not we should
> >be drilling under those conditions is a question. How many more spills
> >like this do we want?
>
> If your standard is zero risk, you can't accomplish anything at all.

I totally agree.. but as always the devil is in the details. Does
anyone really think that this is not going to lead to a demand for
changes?

From: Larry G on 13 May 2010 15:13
On May 13, 8:40 am, Brent <tetraethylleadREMOVET...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 2010-05-13, Larry G <gross.la...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 12, 11:20 pm, russo...(a)grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew Russotto)
> > wrote:
> >> In article <0cbd5783-6169-4364-ab23-8e3290929...(a)k2g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
> >> Larry G  <gross.la...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >until I know more, I'm not going to disagree....  but if true - and we
> >> >really don't have a way to deal with this kind of blowout if the
> >> >preventor does fail - then the whole idea of whether or not we should
> >> >be drilling under those conditions is a question. How many more spills
> >> >like this do we want?
>
> >> If your standard is zero risk, you can't accomplish anything at all.
>
> > I totally agree.. but as always the devil is in the details. Does
> > anyone really think that this is not going to lead to a demand for
> > changes?
>
> You want real change? Stop your loving government from using taxpayer
> money to clean up their messes and have them pay for their messes.
> They'll get more careful than you ever dreamed of without regulations.

Brent - whose going to make them pay?
From: Larry G on 13 May 2010 18:05
On May 13, 3:35 pm, Brent <tetraethylleadREMOVET...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 2010-05-13, Larry G <gross.la...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 13, 8:40 am, Brent <tetraethylleadREMOVET...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On 2010-05-13, Larry G <gross.la...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > On May 12, 11:20 pm, russo...(a)grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew Russotto)
> >> > wrote:
> >> >> In article <0cbd5783-6169-4364-ab23-8e3290929...(a)k2g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
> >> >> Larry G  <gross.la...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> >until I know more, I'm not going to disagree....  but if true - and we
> >> >> >really don't have a way to deal with this kind of blowout if the
> >> >> >preventor does fail - then the whole idea of whether or not we should
> >> >> >be drilling under those conditions is a question. How many more spills
> >> >> >like this do we want?
>
> >> >> If your standard is zero risk, you can't accomplish anything at all..
>
> >> > I totally agree.. but as always the devil is in the details. Does
> >> > anyone really think that this is not going to lead to a demand for
> >> > changes?
>
> >> You want real change? Stop your loving government from using taxpayer
> >> money to clean up their messes and have them pay for their messes.
> >> They'll get more careful than you ever dreamed of without regulations.
>
> > Brent - whose going to make them pay?
>
> What, you don't trust your loving government's court system? You don't
> trust your loving government to protect property rights, one of the very
> very few things it was supposed to do? That's all it has to do. The very
> basics. If you can't expect them to do that, how in the hell do you
> think they could ever come up with fair regulation and enforcement that
> doesn't distort markets? Regulation is several factors of ten more
> difficult to do properly (assuming a well intentioned competent
> all knowing government doing it) than protecting property rights.

govt is what it is guy - the world over. If it is more or less
Democratically elected, there is some degree of accountability but
it's a long way from perfect on property rights or regulation as we
all know.

But without govt.. those do offshore drilling would likely not be held
accountable at all.

I don't see you offering any kind of a reasonable alternative only a
continuing diatribe against govt and govt regulation.

You want less govt? Go to a place like Hati or Somalia where the govt
and regulations are minimal and property rights defended by weapons.

From: Larry G on 14 May 2010 11:55
On May 13, 10:12 pm, Brent <tetraethylleadREMOVET...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 2010-05-13, Larry G <gross.la...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 13, 3:35 pm, Brent <tetraethylleadREMOVET...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On 2010-05-13, Larry G <gross.la...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > On May 13, 8:40 am, Brent <tetraethylleadREMOVET...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >> On 2010-05-13, Larry G <gross.la...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> > On May 12, 11:20 pm, russo...(a)grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew Russotto)
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> >> In article <0cbd5783-6169-4364-ab23-8e3290929...(a)k2g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
> >> >> >> Larry G  <gross.la...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> >> >until I know more, I'm not going to disagree....  but if true - and we
> >> >> >> >really don't have a way to deal with this kind of blowout if the
> >> >> >> >preventor does fail - then the whole idea of whether or not we should
> >> >> >> >be drilling under those conditions is a question. How many more spills
> >> >> >> >like this do we want?
>
> >> >> >> If your standard is zero risk, you can't accomplish anything at all.
>
> >> >> > I totally agree.. but as always the devil is in the details. Does
> >> >> > anyone really think that this is not going to lead to a demand for
> >> >> > changes?
>
> >> >> You want real change? Stop your loving government from using taxpayer
> >> >> money to clean up their messes and have them pay for their messes.
> >> >> They'll get more careful than you ever dreamed of without regulations.
>
> >> > Brent - whose going to make them pay?
>
> >> What, you don't trust your loving government's court system? You don't
> >> trust your loving government to protect property rights, one of the very
> >> very few things it was supposed to do? That's all it has to do. The very
> >> basics. If you can't expect them to do that, how in the hell do you
> >> think they could ever come up with fair regulation and enforcement that
> >> doesn't distort markets? Regulation is several factors of ten more
> >> difficult to do properly (assuming a well intentioned competent
> >> all knowing government doing it) than protecting property rights.
>
> > govt is what it is guy - the world over. If it is more or less
> > Democratically elected, there is some degree of accountability but
> > it's a long way from perfect on property rights or regulation as we
> > all know.
>
> Blah blah blah. Just say it, you love being a slave. You love being
> owned by massa. Accountability? What changed with throwing out democrats
> for republicans and republicans for democrats? Nothing of any
> significance. Once every 25 years or so we get something like NMSL
> repealed. Something minor that took tons and tons of work but nothing
> significantly changes. If voting could change anything it would be
> illegal.
>
> > But without govt.. those do offshore drilling would likely not be held
> > accountable at all.
>
> You mean big oil's friends in government wouldn't have put a 75 million
> dollar cap on what they had to pay.
>
> > I don't see you offering any kind of a reasonable alternative only a
> > continuing diatribe against govt and govt regulation.
>
> I just did and have several times over. The altnernative to the crony
> capitalist and fascist system of regulation is freedom and property
> rights. Your loving government's regulation is what you fell for and
> accepted after government failed to protect property rights. They fail
> and you accept giving them more and more power.
>
> > You want less govt? Go to a place like Hati or Somalia where the govt
> > and regulations are minimal and property rights defended by weapons.
>
> And finally, the ultimate bullshit argument, 'love it or leave it'. If
> you had half a clue you'd realize Hati and Somalia and Zimbabwe are
> representive of the end game of the parasitical system you endorse. If I
> want to live like that I don't have to go anywhere, I just can sit here
> and wait.

but if you do that, we have to listen to your complaining!
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