coolant system corrosion
in [Technical]
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From: hls on 18 Jun 2010 16:17 "jim beam" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message news:obKdnanOSfI0T4bRnZ2dnUVZ_qCdnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net... > On 06/18/2010 12:50 PM, hls wrote: >> >> "Tegger" <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in message >> news:Xns9D98CC4083F09tegger(a)208.90.168.18... >>> "hls" <hls(a)nospam.nix> wrote in >>> news:Be2dne_S-eyuxojRnZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d(a)giganews.com: >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Like we have discussed in previous oil threads, coolant packages >>>> are not usually accompanied with hard scientific data that would >>>> let you know what the actual performance criteria are. Lots of >>>> testimonial and hype, but seldom any hard data. >>>> >>> >>> >>> Not to you, no. Not to you. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Tegger >> >> Yes, I want data, not testimonial and hype. Nothing wrong with that, now, >> is there? > > it's not "hard", but it's more informative than normal "hype"... > > http://www.eetcorp.com/antifreeze/antifreeze-faq.htm > At one point, several years ago, I worked on formulation and testing of this type of corrosion inhibitive packages, as well as others. That is why I keep singing the song of wanting data. We actually bought the DexCool package and used it for bulk glycol deliveries. It wasnt so very great, but it was ****biofriendly**** which is what the customer wanted. It was not a matter of "not invented here". There is often a tradeoff when trying to field ecologically "green" materials. Usually they dont work as well as the optimum technology that can be formulated, but there is money to be made with them on the market. People are often afraid of "those dangerous chemicals" without knowing what they are and what dangers, if any, are involved. Thanks for the link
From: jim beam on 18 Jun 2010 16:24 On 06/18/2010 01:17 PM, hls wrote: > > "jim beam" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message > news:obKdnanOSfI0T4bRnZ2dnUVZ_qCdnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net... >> On 06/18/2010 12:50 PM, hls wrote: >>> >>> "Tegger" <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in message >>> news:Xns9D98CC4083F09tegger(a)208.90.168.18... >>>> "hls" <hls(a)nospam.nix> wrote in >>>> news:Be2dne_S-eyuxojRnZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d(a)giganews.com: >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Like we have discussed in previous oil threads, coolant packages >>>>> are not usually accompanied with hard scientific data that would >>>>> let you know what the actual performance criteria are. Lots of >>>>> testimonial and hype, but seldom any hard data. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Not to you, no. Not to you. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tegger >>> >>> Yes, I want data, not testimonial and hype. Nothing wrong with that, >>> now, >>> is there? >> >> it's not "hard", but it's more informative than normal "hype"... >> >> http://www.eetcorp.com/antifreeze/antifreeze-faq.htm >> > > At one point, several years ago, I worked on formulation and testing of > this type > of corrosion inhibitive packages, as well as others. That is why I keep > singing > the song of wanting data. can you share any links to the testing you did? > > We actually bought the DexCool package and used it for bulk glycol > deliveries. > It wasnt so very great, but it was ****biofriendly**** which is what the > customer > wanted. > > It was not a matter of "not invented here". > > There is often a tradeoff when trying to field ecologically "green" > materials. > Usually they dont work as well as the optimum technology that can be > formulated, > but there is money to be made with them on the market. > > People are often afraid of "those dangerous chemicals" without knowing > what they > are and what dangers, if any, are involved. > > Thanks for the link -- nomina rutrum rutrum
From: dsi1 on 18 Jun 2010 17:08 On 6/18/2010 9:50 AM, hls wrote: > > "Tegger" <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in message > news:Xns9D98CC4083F09tegger(a)208.90.168.18... >> "hls" <hls(a)nospam.nix> wrote in >> news:Be2dne_S-eyuxojRnZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d(a)giganews.com: >> >> >>> >>> Like we have discussed in previous oil threads, coolant packages >>> are not usually accompanied with hard scientific data that would >>> let you know what the actual performance criteria are. Lots of >>> testimonial and hype, but seldom any hard data. >>> >> >> >> Not to you, no. Not to you. >> >> >> -- >> Tegger > > Yes, I want data, not testimonial and hype. Nothing wrong with that, now, > is there? Looking for hard data of this type in a Usenet group is probably wrong on a couple of levels. A trade journal would be a better place to start, or would it? :-)
From: hls on 18 Jun 2010 17:15 "jim beam" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message > > can you share any links to the testing you did? I wish I could. It is held within the company in my laboratory notebook archives, and in reports to the customer (Statoil Norway). That is where a lot of technology is "hidden" and it is why it is so hard to access. A lot of this is not patented, but is disclosed so as to be able to prove prior art. A patent is just a clue to the competitor as to what you are doing. I do hold some patents, but we were encouraged not to patent. We tested both with linear polarization resistance instruments(where applicable) , and with prepared metal coupons of all the typical metals and alloys that would be encountered within a system. The coupons were evaluated by weight loss, surface condition and matrix, embrittlement tests, etc. Tests were done with and without oxygen for extended periods, as you would encounter in cooling systems from time to time. Short term tests often give promising results, but as the system ages, as it would in application, some of the inhibitor components decompose, are precipitated, or are otherwise deactivated. Aluminum is perhaps the hardest nut to crack. Once it starts corroding, it is hard to stop. Organic acid technology didnt seem to be too good for this, compared with the industry standard silicates. Pinhole, crevice, and other very locallized modes of corrosion sometimes take a while to show up in testing, leading one to think that the system is well protected. But in time, when the inhibitor package allows it to happen, failures can be rapid and catastrophic even though most of the system looks pristine. We introduced, by the way, the first biodegradable nontoxic corrosion inhibitor to the North Sea area. It was good, but not great, but beat everything else in the market, and is still being sold. These coolant packages are used not only in automobiles but in coolants for industrial applications of many types.
From: hls on 18 Jun 2010 17:58
"dsi1" <dsi1(a)humuhumunukunukuapua'a.org> wrote in message news:bfRSn.8753$1Q5.447(a)newsfe08.iad... > On 6/18/2010 9:50 AM, hls wrote: >> >> "Tegger" <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in message >> news:Xns9D98CC4083F09tegger(a)208.90.168.18... >>> "hls" <hls(a)nospam.nix> wrote in >>> news:Be2dne_S-eyuxojRnZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d(a)giganews.com: >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Like we have discussed in previous oil threads, coolant packages >>>> are not usually accompanied with hard scientific data that would >>>> let you know what the actual performance criteria are. Lots of >>>> testimonial and hype, but seldom any hard data. >>>> >>> >>> >>> Not to you, no. Not to you. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Tegger >> >> Yes, I want data, not testimonial and hype. Nothing wrong with that, now, >> is there? > > Looking for hard data of this type in a Usenet group is probably wrong on > a couple of levels. A trade journal would be a better place to start, or > would it? :-) Some industries are more open than others. Occasionally you will find articles in some trade journals, or in the periodicals of associations like the National Association of Corrosion Engineers. I suppose that companies which market coolants either think we are too stupid to appreciate test data, or it is a practice that they really dont want to get started. |