coolant system corrosion
in [Technical]
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From: Tegger on 19 Jun 2010 08:45 kludge(a)panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in news:hvicgs$cs0$1 @panix2.panix.com: > Tegger <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote: >>1) buying a car from a reputable and successful automaker that is not >>currently owned by a union or a government, and > > Is there such a thing? Honda and Toyota, for two... -- Tegger
From: jim beam on 19 Jun 2010 09:14 On 06/18/2010 02:15 PM, hls wrote: > > "jim beam" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message >> >> can you share any links to the testing you did? > > I wish I could. It is held within the company in my laboratory notebook > archives, and in reports to the customer (Statoil Norway). That is where > a lot of technology is "hidden" and it is why it is so hard to access. > > A lot of this is not patented, but is disclosed so as to be able to prove > prior art. A patent is just a clue to the competitor as to what you are > doing. > > I do hold some patents, but we were encouraged not to patent. > > We tested both with linear polarization resistance instruments(where > applicable) , and with prepared metal coupons of all the typical metals > and alloys that would be encountered within a system. The coupons > were evaluated by weight loss, surface condition and matrix, embrittlement > tests, etc. > > Tests were done with and without oxygen for extended periods, as you > would encounter in cooling systems from time to time. > > Short term tests often give promising results, but as the system ages, > as it would in application, some of the inhibitor components decompose, > are precipitated, or are otherwise deactivated. doesn't that mean systems should be flushed and replenished? > > Aluminum is perhaps the hardest nut to crack. Once it starts corroding, > it is hard to stop. Organic acid technology didnt seem to be too good > for this, compared with the industry standard silicates. but silicates can wreck pump seals - something very well documented. > > Pinhole, crevice, and other very locallized modes of corrosion sometimes > take a while to show up in testing, leading one to think that the system is > well protected. But in time, when the inhibitor package allows it to > happen, > failures can be rapid and catastrophic even though most of the system > looks pristine. that's what you get when you have differing electrode potentials. materials quality is crucial to that since not only do you have to worry about potentials from one material to another, but you can have non-homogeneous materials with strongly different potentials for different phases within it. > > We introduced, by the way, the first biodegradable nontoxic corrosion > inhibitor to the North Sea area. It was good, but not great, but beat > everything else in the market, and is still being sold. > > These coolant packages are used not only in automobiles but in coolants > for industrial applications of many types. i would imagine this field continues to be actively researched. -- nomina rutrum rutrum
From: jim beam on 19 Jun 2010 09:20 On 06/18/2010 07:34 PM, Tegger wrote: > dsi1<dsi1(a)humuhumunukunukuapua'a.org> wrote in > news:bfRSn.8753$1Q5.447(a)newsfe08.iad: > >> On 6/18/2010 9:50 AM, hls wrote: >>> >>> "Tegger"<invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in message >>> news:Xns9D98CC4083F09tegger(a)208.90.168.18... >>>> "hls"<hls(a)nospam.nix> wrote in >>>> news:Be2dne_S-eyuxojRnZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d(a)giganews.com: >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Like we have discussed in previous oil threads, coolant packages >>>>> are not usually accompanied with hard scientific data that would >>>>> let you know what the actual performance criteria are. Lots of >>>>> testimonial and hype, but seldom any hard data. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Not to you, no. Not to you. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tegger >>> >>> Yes, I want data, not testimonial and hype. Nothing wrong with that, >>> now, is there? >> >> Looking for hard data of this type in a Usenet group is probably wrong >> on a couple of levels. A trade journal would be a better place to >> start, or would it? :-) > > > Or, > 1) buying a car from a reputable and successful automaker that is not > currently owned by a union or a government, and > 2) following that automaker's maintenance and repair instructions, on the > premise that they're probably pretty good at what they do, ok, so... > otherwise you > wouldn't have spent good money on their product. > > Personally, I find that 1& 2 work fairly well when one is not in a > position to be able to discern whether or not any given chemist (or > chemist-wannabe) is talking rot or not. given the above, what do /you/ know that allows you to disregard the manufacturer's dipstick calibration and checking specs, or even the manufacturer's oil change interval specs? -- nomina rutrum rutrum
From: Scott Dorsey on 19 Jun 2010 10:10 Tegger <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote: >kludge(a)panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in news:hvicgs$cs0$1 >@panix2.panix.com: > >> Tegger <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote: >>>1) buying a car from a reputable and successful automaker that is not >>>currently owned by a union or a government, and >> >> Is there such a thing? > >Honda and Toyota, for two... Dunno about Honda, but check out Japanese government investment in Toyota. Also MITI ties to both.... the Japanese have figured out how to do it right at least. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
From: Tegger on 19 Jun 2010 11:30
kludge(a)panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in news:hvij3u$423$1(a)panix2.panix.com: > Tegger <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote: >>kludge(a)panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in news:hvicgs$cs0$1 >>@panix2.panix.com: >> >>> Tegger <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote: >>>>1) buying a car from a reputable and successful automaker that is >>>>not currently owned by a union or a government, and >>> >>> Is there such a thing? >> >>Honda and Toyota, for two... > > Dunno about Honda, but check out Japanese government investment in > Toyota. Also MITI ties to both.... the Japanese have figured out how > to do it right at least. I can't find anything much outside of Toyota getting a $2 billion loan. That is not "investment". Compare that with the explicit ownership of GM by the US and the unions. As for "MITI ties", those ties have often been detrimental. Soichiro Honda openly and controversially defied MITI's directives when he decided to start building cars. Had he complied, I wouldn't be drivig an Integra right now. -- Tegger |