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From: hls on 1 Apr 2010 13:22

"Steve W." <csr684(a)NOTyahoo.com> wrote in message news:hp1bh0$q98
> That engine has the rockers with the bolt going down through the support
> boss to the head correct?

I mentioned the old Pontiac engines that had these studs pressed in rather
than screwed in. Dont know how this car handles the issue.
From: Steve W. on 1 Apr 2010 15:11
hls wrote:
>
> "Steve W." <csr684(a)NOTyahoo.com> wrote in message news:hp1bh0$q98
>> That engine has the rockers with the bolt going down through the support
>> boss to the head correct?
>
> I mentioned the old Pontiac engines that had these studs pressed in rather
> than screwed in. Dont know how this car handles the issue.

It has each rocker on a separate shaft with a casting that mounts to the
head with a single bolt. Non adjustable. Just install the bolt and
torque it to spec. Most of the newer vehicles use similar systems.

--
Steve W.
From: George on 3 Apr 2010 12:43
On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 19:04:29 -0400, George <gbeccles(a)verizon.net> wrote:

>'99 Cavalier 2.2L.
>
>Per an earlier post, I have what seems to be a bad lifter. It hasn't
>responded to my theraputic efforts. We've decided not to repair this,
>given the general condition of the car and the cost of gaskets, etc
>required to pull the head.
>
>But, we need a car in the meantime - among other things, to go around
>and look at cars to buy.
>
>So, my question is, can we 'reasonably' continue to drive this, with the
>bad lifter? It's an exaust valve. There's a lot of play in the rocker
>arm - near 1/8", by my measure. With so much play, is the valve opening
>sufficiently, even? (It doesn't seem to affect performance, AFAICT.)

Further testing: I found a piece of (steel) flat stock, 0.1" thick, that
just fit between the rocker and the valve stem. With the engine off,
that made it tight. But, with the engine running, it's as noisy as
before.

So, among other things, it doesn't look like the lash cap would solve
anything. At the same time, does this tell me anything about where the
problem is? What I have is ...

- Much noise. Listening with a stick, it seems to emanate from that
lifter/push rod/rocker arm.
- The rocker arm has ~.1" of lash, with the engine off.
- The push rod is bringing oil up - possibly even more than the others.
- Taking out the rocker arm lash doesn't affect the noise.

After looking at some cars, the idea of replacing the lifter is getting
more appealing. But, I'm wondering if the problem may be more than
that.

Any insights would be appreciated.

Thanks,
George
From: Vic Smith on 3 Apr 2010 20:56
On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 12:43:52 -0400, George <gbeccles(a)verizon.net>
wrote:

>On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 19:04:29 -0400, George <gbeccles(a)verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>'99 Cavalier 2.2L.
>>
>>Per an earlier post, I have what seems to be a bad lifter. It hasn't
>>responded to my theraputic efforts. We've decided not to repair this,
>>given the general condition of the car and the cost of gaskets, etc
>>required to pull the head.
>>
>>But, we need a car in the meantime - among other things, to go around
>>and look at cars to buy.
>>
>>So, my question is, can we 'reasonably' continue to drive this, with the
>>bad lifter? It's an exaust valve. There's a lot of play in the rocker
>>arm - near 1/8", by my measure. With so much play, is the valve opening
>>sufficiently, even? (It doesn't seem to affect performance, AFAICT.)
>
>Further testing: I found a piece of (steel) flat stock, 0.1" thick, that
>just fit between the rocker and the valve stem. With the engine off,
>that made it tight. But, with the engine running, it's as noisy as
>before.
>
>So, among other things, it doesn't look like the lash cap would solve
>anything. At the same time, does this tell me anything about where the
>problem is? What I have is ...
>
>- Much noise. Listening with a stick, it seems to emanate from that
>lifter/push rod/rocker arm.
>- The rocker arm has ~.1" of lash, with the engine off.
>- The push rod is bringing oil up - possibly even more than the others.
>- Taking out the rocker arm lash doesn't affect the noise.
>
>After looking at some cars, the idea of replacing the lifter is getting
>more appealing. But, I'm wondering if the problem may be more than
>that.
>
>Any insights would be appreciated.
>
>Thanks,
>George

Been through this a few times. My observations.
You have 3 choices.

1. Fix the engine. This is the choice that can be cheapest, but can
also be the most costly.
If its just a bad lifter, it could be a cheap fix. Make sure the cam
lobe isn't flat by measuring lifter movement before you open it up.
If the lobe is worn you're looking at even more work.
I've done a complete rebuild on a 352 and in parts it was the cheapest
way, but it cost me many hours of personal labor.
Then the shop that I sent the heads to did a bad job or no job on the
valve seals, so it sucked oil at high vacuum for the rest of its life.
Ran sweet, but I was young then. Wouldn't think of doing it myself
now.
In your case you'd have the same engine with the same miles and one
new lifter if that's all you have to fix.
BTW, I did the heads on a 350 with 90k miles once, and the mains were
gone a year later. Junked it
It's just a chancy proposition no matter how you look at it.
The most "worrisome."

2. New engine.
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/22-Ltr---134-CID---GM-ENGINE-1999-2002-New-88894187-P41C61.aspx?UserID=10459343&SessionID=A6HGZqcvkxWfNn467fOc

Didn't look hard, but I think it's a long block for $1,695.29
If you pay a good mech to do the swap it'll end up costing close to 3
grand. But you'll have a 36 mo 100k mile warranty engine.
I did this once with a late 80's Chevy Wagon my big kid had.
The Goodwrench Olds 305 cost about $2200 and my mech's labor about
$1300, but he had a lot of cleanup to do because the old engine was
blowing oil like crazy. One of a batch had soft cylinder walls from
the factory. Only had about 65k miles on it.
Everything, including the 4-bbl carb was fouled up.
This was a very clean plush wagon, hard to find, so it was worth
replacing the engine to us.
Can't say that for a '99 Cavalier. You could find a good runner for
2-3 grand if you look around.
But if you really like a car and rust isn't an issue, a new engine is
the way to go.

3. Junk it and replace it. I've done that for most my cars that rust
or get serious engine problems. Had a '71 Chevy Malibu with a 307
that burned a valve. Car was otherwise fine, but I didn't like its
tinniness and never liked driving it, quick as it was. Didn't like
the color either. I just junked it. Might have been cheaper overall
to do the heads, but I hated that car.

Not an easy decision. Good luck.

--Vic

ps. The new 305 I put in the Chevy Wagon lasted about a month.
It was running fine.
Kid came out of his work teaching school, car was gone, Never found.
And no comprehensive insurance either.
Win some, lose some.












From: jim on 3 Apr 2010 22:37


George wrote:
>
> On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 19:04:29 -0400, George <gbeccles(a)verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >'99 Cavalier 2.2L.
> >
> >Per an earlier post, I have what seems to be a bad lifter. It hasn't
> >responded to my theraputic efforts. We've decided not to repair this,
> >given the general condition of the car and the cost of gaskets, etc
> >required to pull the head.
> >
> >But, we need a car in the meantime - among other things, to go around
> >and look at cars to buy.
> >
> >So, my question is, can we 'reasonably' continue to drive this, with the
> >bad lifter? It's an exaust valve. There's a lot of play in the rocker
> >arm - near 1/8", by my measure. With so much play, is the valve opening
> >sufficiently, even? (It doesn't seem to affect performance, AFAICT.)
>
> Further testing: I found a piece of (steel) flat stock, 0.1" thick, that
> just fit between the rocker and the valve stem. With the engine off,
> that made it tight. But, with the engine running, it's as noisy as
> before.
>
> So, among other things, it doesn't look like the lash cap would solve
> anything. At the same time, does this tell me anything about where the
> problem is? What I have is ...
>
> - Much noise. Listening with a stick, it seems to emanate from that
> lifter/push rod/rocker arm.
> - The rocker arm has ~.1" of lash, with the engine off.
> - The push rod is bringing oil up - possibly even more than the others.
> - Taking out the rocker arm lash doesn't affect the noise.
>
> After looking at some cars, the idea of replacing the lifter is getting
> more appealing. But, I'm wondering if the problem may be more than

Seems to me it is likely it is not a collapsed lifter, but it is pretty
hard to diagnose through some one else's eyes. Here's a question for you
- If you had a broken valve spring would you be able to spot that? How
about a stuck valve that isn't closing all the way? If that engine has
roller lifter it could be the roller or the bearing that is busted. You
should really get a good diagnosis before you wade in over your head.

-jim





> that.
>
> Any insights would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> George
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