Bleeding Brakes on Toyota
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From: Nate Nagel on 14 Feb 2010 13:20 On 2/14/2010 12:17 PM, Vic Smith wrote: > On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:17:15 -0600, "Bob Jones"<email(a)me.not> wrote: > >> >> "Nate Nagel"<njnagel(a)roosters.net> wrote in message >> news:hl78s5013n5(a)news5.newsguy.com... >>> On 2/13/2010 4:49 PM, M.M. wrote: >>>> My daughter's BF wants to change the brake fluid in his Corolla. It's a >>>> fairly late model...2005 or 2006, maybe 2007...so I assume it has ABS. >>>> Is there anything special about it on those cars? Can it be done without >>>> a scan tool? >>> >>> Should be OK if you use a pressure bleeder and don't let the MC run dry. >>> Mfgr. may not recommend changing brake fluid so do at your own risk. I >>> personally think it's a good idea. >>> >>> nate >>> >> >> Why would any manufacturer recommends not changing the brake fluid? That's >> news to me. >> > > It's old news. > According to this, Ford, Chryco and GM said it was unnecessary as of > 2001. > http://www.aa1car.com/library/procut3b.htm > > Believe it or not. > I have never changed brake fluid in my cars, and have not had any > brake failures. One of my cars, a '90 Corsica, probably has 20 year > old fluid. The fluid is certainly at least 12 years old, which is how > long I've had it. Brakes are just fine. > The whole brake fluid change thing was probably started by > caliper/wheel cylinder manufacturers, brake fluid producers, brake > flush outfits, and the EZ-Out company. > Not enough traffic for fluid flushes, and back yard mechs not buying > brake fluid, and not cracking off enough bleeders, so they figured > "Hey, if we get the suckers to change fluid, business will skyrocket." > Their campaign worked. > > --Vic > Your bleeders shouldn't seize up in only two years. Of course, I'm also a proponent of those little rubber caps over the bleeder screws as well (vacuum caps work in a pinch if you don't have any.) nate -- replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel
From: dsi1 on 14 Feb 2010 14:00 On 2/14/2010 7:17 AM, Vic Smith wrote: > > Believe it or not. > I have never changed brake fluid in my cars, and have not had any > brake failures. One of my cars, a '90 Corsica, probably has 20 year > old fluid. The fluid is certainly at least 12 years old, which is how > long I've had it. Brakes are just fine. > The whole brake fluid change thing was probably started by > caliper/wheel cylinder manufacturers, brake fluid producers, brake > flush outfits, and the EZ-Out company. > Not enough traffic for fluid flushes, and back yard mechs not buying > brake fluid, and not cracking off enough bleeders, so they figured > "Hey, if we get the suckers to change fluid, business will skyrocket." > Their campaign worked. I've had to replace calipers and brake cylinders in all of my cars. As far as I know, it's not a good idea to do this and retain your old, brownish, sludgy, moisture-laden, brake fluid. I'll at least bleed the brakes until the fluid runs clear - it's the easiest thing in the world to do. It could be that the high humidity over here is a factor but you're got to be the luckiest guy in the whole world if you've never had to replace the those parts on your cars. The trend these days is to sell loaded calipers to guys servicing brakes which could be seen as a marketing ploy. However, I've bought these sets if I thought my seals were leaking, the savings in time and hassle seems worth the price - but I could be wrong. :-) > > --Vic >
From: Vic Smith on 14 Feb 2010 15:24 On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 09:00:01 -1000, dsi1 <dsi1(a)spamnet.com> wrote: > >I've had to replace calipers and brake cylinders in all of my cars. As >far as I know, it's not a good idea to do this and retain your old, >brownish, sludgy, moisture-laden, brake fluid. I'll at least bleed the >brakes until the fluid runs clear - it's the easiest thing in the world >to do. > Be my guest. >It could be that the high humidity over here is a factor but you're got >to be the luckiest guy in the whole world if you've never had to replace >the those parts on your cars. > Never had a caliper or wheel cylinder fail. But except for a couple, I usually only have a car for 6-8 years before rust gets it. But they're usually 5-8 years old when I get them. Replaced a few failed MC's, which leads to bleeding, which once led to replacing a cylinder on one wheel. After that when I saw I'd snap the bleeder I just bled at the line connection to the wheel cylinder. Worked fine. Used that method a couple times when I replaced rusted rear lines. Never had trouble with caliper bleeders. They don't seem to rust like the wheel cylinder bleeders. I don't see not replacing calipers/cylinders as "lucky." But if they started failing on me I might consider that "unlucky." My experience is mostly limited to Chevys, but I never had a caliper/cylinder problem with my Ford or Chrysler either. Think I replaced the MC on the Ford. In fact, other than the MCs and a few rusted lines, the only brake problem I've had was when I did an emergency stop in my VW squareback shortly after I bought it. Slewed real bad. When I got home I crawled under the back axle and found....a snapped off bleeder on the passenger side wheel. No, the EZ-Out didn't work, but cylinders are cheap. >The trend these days is to sell loaded calipers to guys servicing brakes >which could be seen as a marketing ploy. However, I've bought these sets >if I thought my seals were leaking, the savings in time and hassle seems >worth the price - but I could be wrong. :-) > What do you mean "thought my seals were leaking?" What kind of cars are you talking about? Should be obvious if the seals are leaking or not. I've seen "damp" boots on wheel cylinders - which I ignore - but never any sign of leaking on calipers. Not saying it doesn't happen, just that it hasn't on my cars. BTW, I don't race my cars. Just abuse them normally. Let me toss this in, since we're talking about bleeding. My brother, who was a pro mech, speculates that most MC failures are due to bleeding, where the bleeder moves the piston farther than it normally goes, and screws the seals. Makes sense, but I'm no expert. I have seen mention of using a "stop" behind the pedal to prevent this. I never used one when I bled brakes, but it might be a good idea. Or use a pressure bleeder to avoid the pedal action altogether. --Vic
From: Scott Dorsey on 14 Feb 2010 17:02 In article <TKXdn.49867$5n.25372(a)newsfe23.iad>, dsi1 <dsi1(a)spamnet.com> wrote: >I've had to replace calipers and brake cylinders in all of my cars. As >far as I know, it's not a good idea to do this and retain your old, >brownish, sludgy, moisture-laden, brake fluid. I'll at least bleed the >brakes until the fluid runs clear - it's the easiest thing in the world >to do. I have done this several times... and looking at what was coming out made me suspect that changing the fluid would have prevented the failure in the first place. >It could be that the high humidity over here is a factor but you're got >to be the luckiest guy in the whole world if you've never had to replace >the those parts on your cars. I have now a car that is nearly 25 years old and has the original brake cylinders and lines... and I attribute this longevity to my changing the fluid and purging the lines every three or four years. May not actually be the case, but it doesn't seem to be hurting. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
From: dsi1 on 14 Feb 2010 17:45
On 2/14/2010 10:24 AM, Vic Smith wrote: > On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 09:00:01 -1000, dsi1<dsi1(a)spamnet.com> wrote: > >> >> I've had to replace calipers and brake cylinders in all of my cars. As >> far as I know, it's not a good idea to do this and retain your old, >> brownish, sludgy, moisture-laden, brake fluid. I'll at least bleed the >> brakes until the fluid runs clear - it's the easiest thing in the world >> to do. >> > Be my guest. > >> It could be that the high humidity over here is a factor but you're got >> to be the luckiest guy in the whole world if you've never had to replace >> the those parts on your cars. >> > Never had a caliper or wheel cylinder fail. > But except for a couple, I usually only have a car for 6-8 years > before rust gets it. But they're usually 5-8 years old when I get > them. > Replaced a few failed MC's, which leads to bleeding, which once led to > replacing a cylinder on one wheel. After that when I saw I'd snap the > bleeder I just bled at the line connection to the wheel cylinder. > Worked fine. Used that method a couple times when I replaced rusted > rear lines. > Never had trouble with caliper bleeders. They don't seem to rust like > the wheel cylinder bleeders. > I don't see not replacing calipers/cylinders as "lucky." > But if they started failing on me I might consider that "unlucky." > My experience is mostly limited to Chevys, but I never had a > caliper/cylinder problem with my Ford or Chrysler either. > Think I replaced the MC on the Ford. > In fact, other than the MCs and a few rusted lines, the only brake > problem I've had was when I did an emergency stop in my VW squareback > shortly after I bought it. > Slewed real bad. When I got home I crawled under the back axle and > found....a snapped off bleeder on the passenger side wheel. > No, the EZ-Out didn't work, but cylinders are cheap. > >> The trend these days is to sell loaded calipers to guys servicing brakes >> which could be seen as a marketing ploy. However, I've bought these sets >> if I thought my seals were leaking, the savings in time and hassle seems >> worth the price - but I could be wrong. :-) >> > What do you mean "thought my seals were leaking?" That would be brake fluid past the seals. > What kind of cars are you talking about? American cars, Japanese, and European cars. > Should be obvious if the seals are leaking or not. I think so. > I've seen "damp" boots on wheel cylinders - which I ignore - but never > any sign of leaking on calipers. My guess is that you've never changed a wheel cylinder or caliper which explains why you've never changed your brake fluid. It seems to work for you but I'm of a different school. > Not saying it doesn't happen, just that it hasn't on my cars. > BTW, I don't race my cars. Just abuse them normally. > Let me toss this in, since we're talking about bleeding. > My brother, who was a pro mech, speculates that most MC failures are > due to bleeding, where the bleeder moves the piston farther than it > normally goes, and screws the seals. > Makes sense, but I'm no expert. > I have seen mention of using a "stop" behind the pedal to prevent > this. I never used one when I bled brakes, but it might be a good > idea. Not pushing the brake pedal all the way to the floor is a good idea for the reasons your brother cites. However, I don't bother telling the guy doing the pedal pushing cause that'll just confuse them. :-) > Or use a pressure bleeder to avoid the pedal action altogether. Fancy stuff, I can't afford that! > > --Vic > |