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From: Doug on 5 May 2010 02:00
This was posted to the carfree network list and might be of interest
to vulnerable road users. Also the bit about Greek police is
revealing.

"We all know that one of the most detrimental consequence of car use
in the cities is
the huge proportion of unbuilt space dedicated to their needs, leaving
only a tiny
slice of free space for the pedestrians and other human activities. It
is
reasonable, moving towards carfree cities, to try to increase these
pedestrian
spaces on expense of the part dedicated to car use. However it happens
often quite
the opposite, and even the few pedestrian spaces are threatened and
used by the car
drivers. For example in Athens (and most greek cities) the problem of
cars on
pedestrian spaces is so intense that many people literary cannot walk
and the most
vulnerable pedestrian categories (like e.g. disables) have been
disappeared from the
streets and public spaces for this reason. An additional problem is
the extensive
use of motorcycles which not only park, but also speed up on
pedestrian spaces and
have superseded bicycle use (in Athens e.g. circulate nowadays over 1
million
motorcycles and less than 10 thousand bicycles). These are some
typical views of
"sidewalks" and "pedestrianized" street in Athens:
http://www.pezh.gr/images/alexandras.jpg
http://www.pezh.gr/images/mitropoleos.jpg
http://www.pezh.gr/images/ermou.jpg
http://www.pezh.gr/images/themistokleous.jpg
http://www.pezh.gr/images/gravias.jpg
http://www.pezh.gr/images/mavromixali.jpg
http://www.pezh.gr/images/panelinios.jpg
http://www.pezh.gr/images/dikasthria1.jpg
http://www.pezh.gr/images/dikasthr.jpg
To put things in the right perspective, this is actually a case of
violence by the
car and motorcycle drivers against the pedestrians, and mostly against
the more
vulnerable among them (disabled, elderly, small children etc)

Apart from the pressures to the local authorities to handle the issue,
we addressed
also to the European Commission. Our request can be found here:

http://www.pezh.gr/docs/EE72008_en.htm

and the reply we received here:

http://www.pezh.gr/docs/EE72008a.htm
We also tried to apply to the european ombudsman, but without avail
(btw he happened
to be greek)

Commission's "advice" included in their reply `is childish and
contradictory. Like
Pontii Pilati they leave the matter to the police (what a great
advice!). But the
greek police is actually the main culprit of this violence against the
pedestrians.
Although otherwise very keen on shooting at unarmed adolescents or
torturing
desolate immigrants, when it comes to the protection of pedestrians
they are
completely reluctant, and they avoid to intervene, even when they
happen to be
present - the refuse to do so, even when asked for. To use their own
words, they
want to show "clemency" to the illegal drivers who violate pedestrian
rights. (if
someone can read greek, may have a look at
http://www.pezh.gr/docs/astynkatapez2c.htm or
http://www.pezh.gr/docs/astynkatapez2a.htm) Of course to the
pedestrians who cannot
walk, even on these few spaces supposedly left for them by the
motorised traffic, or
fall victims of car "accidents" (and are accused afterwards by them as
responsible)
they have no mercy.
As for the judges, they are the basic pillar of the greek
corruptocracy. They are
relentless to petty criminals, but ready to acquit any big crook (like
those who led
greece to bankrupt). They are totally dependent on the government who
appoints the
judges of the high courts (and who, in turn, control strictly the rest
of the
judiciary) and most of them are deeply corrupted. When I applied to
the court few
years ago, they issued a decision according to which, whenever a
driver doesn't find
a parking place, it is reasonable to park on pedestrian spaces!

The European Commission's hypocrisy is gloriously manifested when they
finance this
administration, they implicitly accuse, to construct "sidewalks" like
this:

http://www.pezh.gr/docs/zaxarof.htm

or

http://www.pezh.gr/docs/loudr.htm

where no sensible pedestrian (and, even more, disabled) could ever
walk. Why do they
finance motorways and other car use facilities when the administration
confess they
are unable to guarantee the proper use of cars?

While on this regard the situation is particularly bad in Greece
(probably the worst
in Europe), there are also many other cities with similar problems.
Actually, to
some degree, the problem of respect of pedestrian (and bicyclist)
rights and spaces,
reside in every country. As an international movement we may be more
influential
towards international entities like the European Commission, than when
we act
separately. So, my proposal is to plan and implement interventions to
the European
Commission (a kind of lobbying) for the establishment of european
policies for the
extension, but even more for the protection and preservation of
pedestrian and
bicycle spaces."

More:

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/carfree_network/browse_frm/thread/cb01c7cede567e8d?hl=en

--
Car Free Cities
http://www.carfree.com/
Carfree Cities proposes a delightful solution
to the vexing problem of urban automobiles.
From: Brimstone on 5 May 2010 02:53


"Doug" <jagmad(a)riseup.net> wrote in message
news:715bfa2f-d4db-470c-8a70-7c02e7a1b1a6(a)h9g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> This was posted to the carfree network list and might be of interest
> to vulnerable road users. Also the bit about Greek police is
> revealing.
>
Which has got what to do with the UK or cycling or legal exactly Doug?


From: Derek C on 5 May 2010 03:04
On May 5, 7:00 am, Doug <jag...(a)riseup.net> wrote:
> This was posted to the carfree network list and might be of interest
> to vulnerable road users. Also the bit about Greek police is
> revealing.
>
> "We all know that one of the most detrimental consequence of car use
> in the cities is
> the huge proportion of unbuilt space dedicated to their needs, leaving
> only a tiny
> slice of free space for the pedestrians and other human activities. It
> is
> reasonable, moving towards carfree cities, to try to increase these
> pedestrian
> spaces on expense of the part dedicated to car use. However it happens
> often quite
> the opposite, and even the few pedestrian spaces are threatened and
> used by the car
> drivers. For example in Athens (and most greek cities) the problem of
> cars on
> pedestrian spaces is so intense that many people literary cannot walk
> and the most
> vulnerable pedestrian categories (like e.g. disables) have been
> disappeared from the
> streets and public spaces for this reason.  An additional problem is
> the extensive
> use of motorcycles which not only park, but also speed up on
> pedestrian spaces and
> have superseded bicycle use (in Athens e.g. circulate nowadays over 1
> million
> motorcycles and less than 10 thousand bicycles). These are some
> typical views of
> "sidewalks" and "pedestrianized" street in Athens:http://www.pezh.gr/images/alexandras.jpghttp://www.pezh.gr/images/mitropoleos.jpghttp://www.pezh.gr/images/ermou.jpghttp://www.pezh.gr/images/themistokleous.jpghttp://www.pezh.gr/images/gravias.jpghttp://www.pezh.gr/images/mavromixali.jpghttp://www..pezh.gr/images/panelinios.jpghttp://www.pezh.gr/images/dikasthria1.jpghttp://www.pezh.gr/images/dikasthr.jpg
> To put things in the right perspective, this is actually a case of
> violence by the
> car and motorcycle drivers against the pedestrians, and mostly against
> the more
> vulnerable among them (disabled, elderly, small children etc)
>
> Apart from the pressures to the local authorities to handle the issue,
> we addressed
> also to the European Commission. Our request can be found here:
>
> http://www.pezh.gr/docs/EE72008_en.htm
>
> and the reply we received here:
>
> http://www.pezh.gr/docs/EE72008a.htm
> We also tried to apply to the european ombudsman, but without avail
> (btw he happened
> to be greek)
>
> Commission's "advice" included in their reply `is childish and
> contradictory. Like
> Pontii Pilati they leave the matter to the police (what a great
> advice!). But the
> greek police is actually the main culprit of this violence against the
> pedestrians.
> Although otherwise very keen on shooting at unarmed adolescents or
> torturing
> desolate immigrants, when it comes to the protection of pedestrians
> they are
> completely reluctant, and they avoid to intervene, even when they
> happen to be
> present - the refuse to do so, even when asked for. To use their own
> words, they
> want to show "clemency" to the illegal drivers who violate pedestrian
> rights. (if
> someone can read greek, may have a look athttp://www.pezh.gr/docs/astynkatapez2c.htmorhttp://www.pezh.gr/docs/astynkatapez2a.htm) Of course to the
> pedestrians who cannot
> walk, even on these few spaces supposedly left for them by the
> motorised traffic, or
> fall victims of car "accidents" (and are accused afterwards by them as
> responsible)
> they have no mercy.
> As for the judges, they are the basic pillar of the greek
> corruptocracy. They are
> relentless to petty criminals, but ready to acquit any big crook (like
> those who led
> greece to bankrupt). They are totally dependent on the government who
> appoints the
> judges of the high courts (and who, in turn, control strictly the rest
> of the
> judiciary) and most of them are deeply corrupted. When I applied to
> the court few
> years ago, they issued a decision according to which, whenever a
> driver doesn't find
> a parking place, it is reasonable to park on pedestrian spaces!
>
> The European Commission's hypocrisy is gloriously manifested when they
> finance this
> administration, they implicitly accuse, to construct "sidewalks" like
> this:
>
> http://www.pezh.gr/docs/zaxarof.htm
>
> or
>
> http://www.pezh.gr/docs/loudr.htm
>
> where no sensible pedestrian (and, even more, disabled) could ever
> walk. Why do they
> finance motorways and other car use facilities when the administration
> confess they
> are unable to guarantee the proper use of cars?
>
> While on this regard the situation is particularly bad in Greece
> (probably the worst
> in Europe), there are also many other cities with similar problems.
> Actually, to
> some degree, the problem of respect of pedestrian (and bicyclist)
> rights and spaces,
> reside in every country. As an international movement we may be more
> influential
> towards international entities like the European Commission, than when
> we act
> separately. So, my proposal is to plan and implement interventions to
> the European
> Commission (a kind of lobbying) for the establishment of european
> policies for the
> extension, but even more for the protection and preservation of
> pedestrian and
> bicycle spaces."
>
> More:
>
> http://groups.google.co.uk/group/carfree_network/browse_frm/thread/cb...
>
> --
> Car Free Citieshttp://www.carfree.com/
> Carfree Cities proposes a delightful solution
> to the vexing problem of urban automobiles.


As far as I am concerned, anything that reduces the amount of space
for you, your illegal e-bike and your Critical Mass buddies is a good
thing!

Derek C
From: Doug on 5 May 2010 03:23
On 5 May, 08:04, Derek C <del.copel...(a)tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> On May 5, 7:00 am, Doug <jag...(a)riseup.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > This was posted to the carfree network list and might be of interest
> > to vulnerable road users. Also the bit about Greek police is
> > revealing.
>
> > "We all know that one of the most detrimental consequence of car use
> > in the cities is
> > the huge proportion of unbuilt space dedicated to their needs, leaving
> > only a tiny
> > slice of free space for the pedestrians and other human activities. It
> > is
> > reasonable, moving towards carfree cities, to try to increase these
> > pedestrian
> > spaces on expense of the part dedicated to car use. However it happens
> > often quite
> > the opposite, and even the few pedestrian spaces are threatened and
> > used by the car
> > drivers. For example in Athens (and most greek cities) the problem of
> > cars on
> > pedestrian spaces is so intense that many people literary cannot walk
> > and the most
> > vulnerable pedestrian categories (like e.g. disables) have been
> > disappeared from the
> > streets and public spaces for this reason.  An additional problem is
> > the extensive
> > use of motorcycles which not only park, but also speed up on
> > pedestrian spaces and
> > have superseded bicycle use (in Athens e.g. circulate nowadays over 1
> > million
> > motorcycles and less than 10 thousand bicycles). These are some
> > typical views of
> > "sidewalks" and "pedestrianized" street in Athens:http://www.pezh.gr/images/alexandras.jpghttp://www.pezh.gr/images/mit...
> > To put things in the right perspective, this is actually a case of
> > violence by the
> > car and motorcycle drivers against the pedestrians, and mostly against
> > the more
> > vulnerable among them (disabled, elderly, small children etc)
>
> > Apart from the pressures to the local authorities to handle the issue,
> > we addressed
> > also to the European Commission. Our request can be found here:
>
> >http://www.pezh.gr/docs/EE72008_en.htm
>
> > and the reply we received here:
>
> >http://www.pezh.gr/docs/EE72008a.htm
> > We also tried to apply to the european ombudsman, but without avail
> > (btw he happened
> > to be greek)
>
> > Commission's "advice" included in their reply `is childish and
> > contradictory. Like
> > Pontii Pilati they leave the matter to the police (what a great
> > advice!). But the
> > greek police is actually the main culprit of this violence against the
> > pedestrians.
> > Although otherwise very keen on shooting at unarmed adolescents or
> > torturing
> > desolate immigrants, when it comes to the protection of pedestrians
> > they are
> > completely reluctant, and they avoid to intervene, even when they
> > happen to be
> > present - the refuse to do so, even when asked for. To use their own
> > words, they
> > want to show "clemency" to the illegal drivers who violate pedestrian
> > rights. (if
> > someone can read greek, may have a look athttp://www.pezh.gr/docs/astynkatapez2c.htmorhttp://www.pezh.gr/docs/a...) Of course to the
> > pedestrians who cannot
> > walk, even on these few spaces supposedly left for them by the
> > motorised traffic, or
> > fall victims of car "accidents" (and are accused afterwards by them as
> > responsible)
> > they have no mercy.
> > As for the judges, they are the basic pillar of the greek
> > corruptocracy. They are
> > relentless to petty criminals, but ready to acquit any big crook (like
> > those who led
> > greece to bankrupt). They are totally dependent on the government who
> > appoints the
> > judges of the high courts (and who, in turn, control strictly the rest
> > of the
> > judiciary) and most of them are deeply corrupted. When I applied to
> > the court few
> > years ago, they issued a decision according to which, whenever a
> > driver doesn't find
> > a parking place, it is reasonable to park on pedestrian spaces!
>
> > The European Commission's hypocrisy is gloriously manifested when they
> > finance this
> > administration, they implicitly accuse, to construct "sidewalks" like
> > this:
>
> >http://www.pezh.gr/docs/zaxarof.htm
>
> > or
>
> >http://www.pezh.gr/docs/loudr.htm
>
> > where no sensible pedestrian (and, even more, disabled) could ever
> > walk. Why do they
> > finance motorways and other car use facilities when the administration
> > confess they
> > are unable to guarantee the proper use of cars?
>
> > While on this regard the situation is particularly bad in Greece
> > (probably the worst
> > in Europe), there are also many other cities with similar problems.
> > Actually, to
> > some degree, the problem of respect of pedestrian (and bicyclist)
> > rights and spaces,
> > reside in every country. As an international movement we may be more
> > influential
> > towards international entities like the European Commission, than when
> > we act
> > separately. So, my proposal is to plan and implement interventions to
> > the European
> > Commission (a kind of lobbying) for the establishment of european
> > policies for the
> > extension, but even more for the protection and preservation of
> > pedestrian and
> > bicycle spaces."
>
> > More:
>
> >http://groups.google.co.uk/group/carfree_network/browse_frm/thread/cb...
> >
> As far as I am concerned, anything that reduces the amount of space
> for you, your illegal e-bike and your Critical Mass buddies is a good
> thing!
>
And here was me thinking that someone like you would be pleased to
learn about a country which is even worse than ours! There is no
pleasing some people.

> > --
> > Car Free Citieshttp://www.carfree.com/
> > Carfree Cities proposes a delightful solution
> > to the vexing problem of urban automobiles.
From: Mike P on 5 May 2010 03:30
On Wed, 05 May 2010 00:23:11 -0700, Doug sang, in the style of Bill
Bailey:

> On 5 May, 08:04, Derek C <del.copel...(a)tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>> On May 5, 7:00 am, Doug <jag...(a)riseup.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > This was posted to the carfree network list and might be of interest
>> > to vulnerable road users. Also the bit about Greek police is
>> > revealing.
>>
>> > "We all know that one of the most detrimental consequence of car use
>> > in the cities is
>> > the huge proportion of unbuilt space dedicated to their needs,
>> > leaving only a tiny
>> > slice of free space for the pedestrians and other human activities.
>> > It is
>> > reasonable, moving towards carfree cities, to try to increase these
>> > pedestrian
>> > spaces on expense of the part dedicated to car use. However it
>> > happens often quite
>> > the opposite, and even the few pedestrian spaces are threatened and
>> > used by the car
>> > drivers. For example in Athens (and most greek cities) the problem of
>> > cars on
>> > pedestrian spaces is so intense that many people literary cannot walk
>> > and the most
>> > vulnerable pedestrian categories (like e.g. disables) have been
>> > disappeared from the
>> > streets and public spaces for this reason.  An additional problem is
>> > the extensive
>> > use of motorcycles which not only park, but also speed up on
>> > pedestrian spaces and
>> > have superseded bicycle use (in Athens e.g. circulate nowadays over 1
>> > million
>> > motorcycles and less than 10 thousand bicycles). These are some
>> > typical views of
>> > "sidewalks" and "pedestrianized" street in
>> > Athens:http://www.pezh.gr/images/alexandras.jpghttp://www.pezh.gr/
images/mit...
>> > To put things in the right perspective, this is actually a case of
>> > violence by the
>> > car and motorcycle drivers against the pedestrians, and mostly
>> > against the more
>> > vulnerable among them (disabled, elderly, small children etc)
>>
>> > Apart from the pressures to the local authorities to handle the
>> > issue, we addressed
>> > also to the European Commission. Our request can be found here:
>>
>> >http://www.pezh.gr/docs/EE72008_en.htm
>>
>> > and the reply we received here:
>>
>> >http://www.pezh.gr/docs/EE72008a.htm
>> > We also tried to apply to the european ombudsman, but without avail
>> > (btw he happened
>> > to be greek)
>>
>> > Commission's "advice" included in their reply `is childish and
>> > contradictory. Like
>> > Pontii Pilati they leave the matter to the police (what a great
>> > advice!). But the
>> > greek police is actually the main culprit of this violence against
>> > the pedestrians.
>> > Although otherwise very keen on shooting at unarmed adolescents or
>> > torturing
>> > desolate immigrants, when it comes to the protection of pedestrians
>> > they are
>> > completely reluctant, and they avoid to intervene, even when they
>> > happen to be
>> > present - the refuse to do so, even when asked for. To use their own
>> > words, they
>> > want to show "clemency" to the illegal drivers who violate pedestrian
>> > rights. (if
>> > someone can read greek, may have a look
>> > athttp://www.pezh.gr/docs/astynkatapez2c.htmorhttp://www.pezh.gr/
docs/a...)
>> > Of course to the pedestrians who cannot
>> > walk, even on these few spaces supposedly left for them by the
>> > motorised traffic, or
>> > fall victims of car "accidents" (and are accused afterwards by them
>> > as responsible)
>> > they have no mercy.
>> > As for the judges, they are the basic pillar of the greek
>> > corruptocracy. They are
>> > relentless to petty criminals, but ready to acquit any big crook
>> > (like those who led
>> > greece to bankrupt). They are totally dependent on the government who
>> > appoints the
>> > judges of the high courts (and who, in turn, control strictly the
>> > rest of the
>> > judiciary) and most of them are deeply corrupted. When I applied to
>> > the court few
>> > years ago, they issued a decision according to which, whenever a
>> > driver doesn't find
>> > a parking place, it is reasonable to park on pedestrian spaces!
>>
>> > The European Commission's hypocrisy is gloriously manifested when
>> > they finance this
>> > administration, they implicitly accuse, to construct "sidewalks" like
>> > this:
>>
>> >http://www.pezh.gr/docs/zaxarof.htm
>>
>> > or
>>
>> >http://www.pezh.gr/docs/loudr.htm
>>
>> > where no sensible pedestrian (and, even more, disabled) could ever
>> > walk. Why do they
>> > finance motorways and other car use facilities when the
>> > administration confess they
>> > are unable to guarantee the proper use of cars?
>>
>> > While on this regard the situation is particularly bad in Greece
>> > (probably the worst
>> > in Europe), there are also many other cities with similar problems.
>> > Actually, to
>> > some degree, the problem of respect of pedestrian (and bicyclist)
>> > rights and spaces,
>> > reside in every country. As an international movement we may be more
>> > influential
>> > towards international entities like the European Commission, than
>> > when we act
>> > separately. So, my proposal is to plan and implement interventions to
>> > the European
>> > Commission (a kind of lobbying) for the establishment of european
>> > policies for the
>> > extension, but even more for the protection and preservation of
>> > pedestrian and
>> > bicycle spaces."
>>
>> > More:
>>
>> >http://groups.google.co.uk/group/carfree_network/browse_frm/thread/
cb...
>> >
>> As far as I am concerned, anything that reduces the amount of space for
>> you, your illegal e-bike and your Critical Mass buddies is a good
>> thing!
>>
> And here was me thinking that someone like you would be pleased to learn
> about a country which is even worse than ours! There is no pleasing some
> people.

Have you ever been there Doug?

I lived there for years. A lot of the article is bollocks. Some of the
pictures, especially the first two, are *ancient*


--

Mike P

'98 Citroen Xantia Activa Turbo
'97 Peugeot 306D. The slowest post 1996 car ever built.
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