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From: Tegger on 25 Mar 2010 20:53
....just why Sudden Unintended Acceleration is virtually impossible.

<http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/how_to/4347704.html>

The author does not mention it, but the NHTSA closely regulates the design
of the electronic throttle and its firmware. It is, by design, not possible
to "hack" into the firmware in order to modify or disable it.

--
Tegger

From: chuckcar on 25 Mar 2010 21:16
Tegger <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in
news:Xns9D46D48D312C4tegger(a)208.90.168.18:

> ...just why Sudden Unintended Acceleration is virtually impossible.
>
> <http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/how_to/4347704.html>
>
> The author does not mention it, but the NHTSA closely regulates the
> design of the electronic throttle and its firmware. It is, by design,
> not possible to "hack" into the firmware in order to modify or disable
> it.
>
No. You'd have to have to have the pin that enables erasing/rewriting of
the EEPROM/EAPROM IC used and the hardware (electric and electronic) to
support it to be able to do it. One *could* however physically take the
ROM out and completely rewrite it, if you could rebuild the module you
destroy by doing this. That is entirely possible and anyone could do it
with enough technical knowledge, ability and the right pieces. Anyone
can buy a PROM programmer.

That's all beyond the scope of such an article of course, but it shows
what is involved in doing it sucessfully.

I'd bet good money that all race cars have a connector for just this
purpose.

--
(setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )
From: Ed White on 25 Mar 2010 21:26
On Mar 25, 8:53 pm, Tegger <inva...(a)invalid.inv> wrote:
> ...just why Sudden Unintended Acceleration is virtually impossible.
>
> <http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/how_to/4347704.html>
>
> The author does not mention it, but the NHTSA closely regulates the design
> of the electronic throttle and its firmware. It is, by design, not possible
> to "hack" into the firmware in order to modify or disable it.
>
> --
> Tegger

The article was very good and I believe the conclusions are correct
(i.e., it is not the electronics). I do wonder about your statement.
Anything to back it up? Exactly how does NHTSA closely regulate the
design? The firmware is in the ECM, and people are constantly screwing
with that. My son has some sort of programer that allows him to screw
up the ECM in his Mustang (and I do mean screw it up). I looked at the
Toyota shop manual for the RAV4 and it appears to me all the throttle
control stuff is handled by the ECM, so I can't see how that is any
more secure than any of the other firmware.

Ed
From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 25 Mar 2010 21:31
On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 01:16:19 +0000, chuckcar wrote:

> Tegger <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in
> news:Xns9D46D48D312C4tegger(a)208.90.168.18:
>
>> ...just why Sudden Unintended Acceleration is virtually impossible.
>>
>> <http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/how_to/4347704.html>
>>
>> The author does not mention it, but the NHTSA closely regulates the
>> design of the electronic throttle and its firmware. It is, by design,
>> not possible to "hack" into the firmware in order to modify or disable
>> it.
>>
> No. You'd have to have to have the pin that enables erasing/rewriting of
> the EEPROM/EAPROM IC used and the hardware (electric and electronic) to
> support it to be able to do it. One *could* however physically take the
> ROM out and completely rewrite it, if you could rebuild the module you
> destroy by doing this. That is entirely possible and anyone could do it
> with enough technical knowledge, ability and the right pieces. Anyone can
> buy a PROM programmer.
>
> That's all beyond the scope of such an article of course, but it shows
> what is involved in doing it sucessfully.
>
> I'd bet good money that all race cars have a connector for just this
> purpose.

I think in Indycar (or CART) they had the ability to do this while the
race was in progress! That has since been ruled out IIRC.

Of course it wasn't reprogramming the EEPROM on the fly, but changing the
parameters in RAM.



From: Tegger on 25 Mar 2010 21:51
chuckcar <chuck(a)nil.car> wrote in news:Xns9D46D713F7AC1chuck(a)127.0.0.1:

> Tegger <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in
> news:Xns9D46D48D312C4tegger(a)208.90.168.18:
>
>> ...just why Sudden Unintended Acceleration is virtually impossible.
>>
>> <http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/how_to/4347704.html>
>>
>> The author does not mention it, but the NHTSA closely regulates the
>> design of the electronic throttle and its firmware. It is, by design,
>> not possible to "hack" into the firmware in order to modify or disable
>> it.
>>
> No. You'd have to have to have the pin that enables erasing/rewriting of
> the EEPROM/EAPROM IC used and the hardware (electric and electronic) to
> support it to be able to do it. One *could* however physically take the
> ROM out and completely rewrite it, if you could rebuild the module you
> destroy by doing this. That is entirely possible and anyone could do it
> with enough technical knowledge, ability and the right pieces. Anyone
> can buy a PROM programmer.



Of course. And you could take a roll of sheet steel and turn it into a car
body; you could turn a steel billet into a fully-automatic firearm; you
could turn a bag of lawn fertilizer into a bomb.



>
> That's all beyond the scope of such an article of course, but it shows
> what is involved in doing it sucessfully.



Surely, but nobody's alleging tampering. Instead the allegations are of
defects from the factory, and that's where the silliness comes in.



--
Tegger

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