Which side is the fuel tank filler on?
in [UK Drivers]
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From: Albert T Cone on 26 May 2010 04:50 Ret. wrote: >> Any spark from static will be between the car to the pump nozzle and >> the pump nozzle is the only place where fuel is exposed. There is a >> similar myth with regards to mobile phone use near pumps, with no >> basis in fact. > > There are a lot of myths surrounding static and cars. Many of them > bolstered by those ridiculous 'anti-static' straps that people used to > buy and bolt to their cars to drag along the ground. In fact those only > made the issue worse! > > The static that results in people getting shocks when they get out of > their cars is caused by the friction of man-made fibres, in the car seat > and your clothing, rubbing together when you slide across your seat to > get out of the car. The static builds up in *you* - not in the car - and > it earths through the car when you then touch the metal door to shut it. The car body *can* also build up a charge by friction deposition on days when the air is very dry. The voltage is typically lower than that generated by you rubbing low-conductance fibres against each other (~20kV), but the capacitance between the car body and earth is much higher than that between your body and the car, so the current which can flow on contact with a low resistance discharge path is much higher, so there is, theoretically, the chance of a spark at the nozzle. Some quick calculations suggest that the capacitance of a car body-to-earth is probably less than 1nF, so there is probably less than 1 Joule of energy stored - not a lot, but if it discharges in 1 microsecond then you could have a couple of hundred amps flowing.
From: boltar2003 on 26 May 2010 05:02 On Wed, 26 May 2010 09:28:13 +0100 Albert T Cone <a.k.kirby(a)durham.ac.uk> wrote: >> Huh? Surely the pump is earthed internally? > >Indeed, so when a car body which has been nicely charged up by hurtling >through dry air is connected to it, it will act as a nice current sink. > The ferrite rings just limit the rate at which the current can build >up, so they reduce the chance of there being a spark. Hmm. I don't see how ferrite rings can do anything about static electricity or current build up. Rings are normaly use for RF/EMI suppression. If you can explain the science behind how they prevent static it I'd be interested to read it but I'm not convinced. All sounds a bit crystals and whale song to me. B2003
From: Scott M on 26 May 2010 05:10 Ret. wrote: > Your argument is undermined by the number of posters on this thread who > do, like me, regularly fill up on the 'wrong side' without problem. Your assertion is that EVERYONE can do it which is patent nonsense. I'm not saying it's impossible - I do it all the time - but it's not always as straightforward as you make out. > If > you cannot squeeze between your car and the pump then you are not far > enough forward. The rear of your car should be level with the 'end' of > the pump. No problem at all then - either using your card in the > machine, or getting the hose to reach. You just stand at the back of > your car and in front of the pump. The back of me car is level with the pump - it's an estate so it has to be. The card machine is further down the side of the car. To clear the card machine I'd be another 2' further forward. With the car in the right place and the hose at *full* stretch I've got a very tight space between card machine and side of car. If I was another 2' forward the hose wouldn't reach. If it was a wind-y one; if it was one with a longer hose it'd be a doddle, but as it is I can see exactly why people wouldn't do it and various relatives, if they tried, wouldn't be able to do it. > I cannot see how you can 'get it wrong' anyway. How difficult is it to > know when the back of your car is level with the 'end' of the pump? If > you cannot do that - how on earth do you ever park your car in a tight > space? - or do you never try that in case you 'get it wrong'? <sigh> I can do it. I was talking about other people. Many struggle with close manoevering and couldn't. And if you can be bothered to engage a little understanding regarding hose lengths then you might see that it's not just a question of being far enough forward; you've got to be quite close to an island that disappears from view as you get near it. -- Scott Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?
From: Ian Jackson on 26 May 2010 05:14 In message <htio33$otp$1(a)speranza.aioe.org>, boltar2003(a)boltar.world writes >On Wed, 26 May 2010 09:28:13 +0100 >Albert T Cone <a.k.kirby(a)durham.ac.uk> wrote: >>> Huh? Surely the pump is earthed internally? >> >>Indeed, so when a car body which has been nicely charged up by hurtling >>through dry air is connected to it, it will act as a nice current sink. >> The ferrite rings just limit the rate at which the current can build >>up, so they reduce the chance of there being a spark. > >Hmm. I don't see how ferrite rings can do anything about static electricity >or current build up. Rings are normaly use for RF/EMI suppression. If you can >explain the science behind how they prevent static it I'd be interested to >read it but I'm not convinced. All sounds a bit crystals and whale song to me. > I suspect that the manufacturers and installers of petrol pump equipment go to great lengths to ensure that the component parts are adequately electrically bonded to each other using electrically conductive rubber etc where appropriate), and the whole lot will be properly earthed. I too doubt that the rings are ferrite. You don't often see them these days but, next time I do, I'll give them a squeeze. I reckon that they are simply made of rubber. -- Ian
From: GT on 26 May 2010 06:12
"Silk" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message news:htb6n0$ash$2(a)speranza.aioe.org... > On 23/05/2010 09:56, GT wrote: > >> The hose length is controlled by law - it cannot touch the ground when >> the >> nozzel is 'parked'. > > I think you may have made that up. I've seen plenty that drag on the > ground. Please feel free to 'think' what you like. There are legal requirements and regulations with which petrol stations and equipment must comply - the hose not dragging on the floor is one of the regulations. The Sainsbury's PFS that I worked at and all others that I have visited have hoses attached to the top of a pump and hang down in a loop. I have not seen 'reel' pumps, but I assume they will comply with the regulation as they pull the hose back in as you return it. If you see one that does drag on the ground, then you should report it to the regional fire inspection officer and the petrol station will be visited and potentially shut down! |