From: Noddy on

"Clocky" <notgonn(a)> wrote in message

> No arguement there, but ignorance is no excuse for indiscriminate
> killing... we all know it's wrong.

Of course it is, but then the real question here is wether the Apache crew
actually believed the people they fired on were armed insurgents or wether
they knew they were civilians and their radio commentary was bogus just so
they could get permission to fire on a bunch of people. As much as you or I
might think the video is appalling, you have to walk a mile in the other
guys shoes. I'm not justifying their actions in any way but that's a *very*
hot part of the world to be flying a helicopter in and for all we know that
crew could have been under fire plenty of times before.

Itchy trigger fingers go with the territory.


From: Noddy on

"D Walford" <dwalford(a)> wrote in message

> It is wrong but there is a lot less of it in today's wars than in the
> past, in WW2 and Vietnam many thousands of tons of bombs were dropped
> indiscriminately killing and maiming many hundreds of thousands of people,
> smarter bombs are much more likely to hit their intended targets instead
> of landing anywhere and killing whoever was unlucky enough to be nearby.

The sad part of *any* conflict is that there is always going to be civilian
casualties. The sadder part is that people *know* this, but it doesn't stop
them putting themselves, or anyone else, in harm's way in the pursuit of a


From: Noddy on

"D Walford" <dwalford(a)> wrote in message

> They certainly didn't win it on their own but if they weren't involved
> Holland would probably be still be run by the Germans and I'm sure you
> wouldn't be too happy about that.

The US largely defeated Japan on their own, and with around 10% of their
military strength.


From: Atheist Chaplain on
"D Walford" <dwalford(a)> wrote in message
> On 11/04/2010 2:30 PM, Dyna Soar wrote:
>> D Walford wrote:
>>> On 11/04/2010 11:39 AM, Clocky wrote:
>>>> The videos showing the misconduct of American soldiers can be found
>>>> using Google.
>>> The only difference between current wars and previous wars is the
>>> amount of video taken by almost everyone involved.
>>> If I was a Commander over there the first thing I would do would be to
>>> make it a very serious offence for any of my men to be caught owning
>>> or using any sort of camera, posting a video on the net would be
>>> treason with very serious punishment.
>> Are you aware that the video we are discussing is an official video shot
>> by
>> the chopper's on board camera, not some private movie camera? Your
>> comments
>> indicate not. And this video has been "released" almost three years
>> after
>> the event, the chances it was released by an actual participant in the
>> event
>> is so remote, I suggest it's nil.
> I was aware of that but the fact that a video exists at all is the
> difference between current and previous conflicts.

you know they had gun cameras way back in WW2 don't you, as well as cameras
in the bomb sights.................
and they have been used ever since.

[This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church of
Scientology International]
"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your
Christ." Gandhi

From: Noddy on

"Clocky" <notgonn(a)> wrote in message

> The Canadians and English liberated the Netherlands.

Which they never would have had a hope in hell of doing without American

> Yes the allies including the Americans contributed to the victory but 93%
> of all German casualties were sustained on the Russian front.

The Germans lost more men on the Eastern front simply because they *had*
more men on the Eastern front, but that doesn't mean the opposition they
faced in that quarter was superior in skill. The Russians won in the East by
sheer weight of numbers, but for every dead German there was 10 dead

Perhaps you're forgetting that the war in Europe was fought on two fronts,
the East *and* the West, and the US played a vital role on *both* fronts.