From: Conor on
On 24/03/2010 06:53, Adrian wrote:

> And no contract driver or owner-driver ever drives a haulage company
> branded wagon?

A driver driving via an agency or self employed doing relief cover would
but not an owner driver. Even the Tarmac liveried ones have the name of
the haulier on if its a subbie.

Conor I'm not prejudiced. I hate everyone equally.
From: Bod on
On 24/03/2010 09:52, Theodore wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 09:15:27 +0000, Bod<bodron57(a)>
> wrote:
>> On 24/03/2010 09:08, Theodore wrote:
>>> On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 08:37:53 +0000, Bod<bodron57(a)>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On 24/03/2010 08:33, Theodore wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 08:31:03 +0000, Bod<bodron57(a)>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> On 24/03/2010 08:29, Theodore wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 19:52:11 +0000, Conor<conor(a)> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 23/03/2010 11:40, Ret. wrote:
>>>>>>>>> According to the article, once all the current 'batch' of cameras are up
>>>>>>>>> and running, there will be around 560,000 'reads' per day.
>>>>>>>> Is that all?
>>>>>>>> Who do you
>>>>>>>>> think is going to be checking up on the movements of 560,000 individual
>>>>>>>>> vehicles every day? (And why would they want to?).
>>>>>>>> OK...
>>>>>>>> Say for example that you do a bit of gardening and own an allotment. You
>>>>>>>> do a regular journey once a week or a fortnight to an agricultural
>>>>>>>> supplier where you buy bits and bobs for the allotment. Your wife is a
>>>>>>>> hairdresser and as you have more time free, you make regular trips to
>>>>>>>> the hairdressing suppliers to buy various consumables and equipment for
>>>>>>>> the missus. At both locations, you happen to pay cash because its small
>>>>>>>> amounts and you always have enough money on you.
>>>>>>>> On the Monday, you went to the agricultural suppliers and then the
>>>>>>>> hairdressers. From there, you went to the allotment where you spent a
>>>>>>>> couple of hours before returning home.
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, you go to the allotment to check the plants and then take
>>>>>>>> a drive into a city. On that Wednesday there's a terrorist attack on a
>>>>>>>> high value target in that city within a couple of hundred yards from
>>>>>>>> where you parked. Forensic examination reveals a fertiliser bomb was the
>>>>>>>> explosive device used.
>>>>>>>> Using ANPR data collated on a database, it could be ascertained that you
>>>>>>>> made regular trips to a place that sold fertiliser (agricultural
>>>>>>>> suppliers) and also a place that sold hydrogen peroxide (hairdressing
>>>>>>>> suppliers) and then went to the allotment where you had a shed that you
>>>>>>>> could construct a fertiliser bomb. On the morning, it could be claimed
>>>>>>>> that you went to collect the bomb, drove to the target area then planted
>>>>>>>> the device. You would have little to prove you didn't. You would have
>>>>>>>> trace chemicals on your clothes, in your house, in the car, in the
>>>>>>>> allotment shed. You paid cash so you can't prove that you didn't buy the
>>>>>>>> ingredients needed. Your journeys show a pattern that could be
>>>>>>>> interpreted as a bomber buying the components in small amounts so not to
>>>>>>>> arouse suspicion, storing them in an allotment shed whereupon you
>>>>>>>> assembled the device and transported it to its target.
>>>>>>>> Hey presto, the Police have their man. You have no defence even though
>>>>>>>> all you did was a bit of gardening and some errands for the wife...
>>>>>>> A nice, if slightly exaggerated example.
>>>>>>> Ret. doesn't seem to understand in the slightest about how valuable
>>>>>>> such data will be and how many innocent people could be picked up
>>>>>>> simply for driving in the wrong area at the wrong time.
>>>>>>> Let alone private investigators bribing someone to search the database
>>>>>>> in divorce cases etc etc. The list is endless.
>>>>>> How long have you suffered from paranoia?
>>>>> Ever been arrested for something you didn't do?
>>>> No and neither have my friends or family either.
>>> Well that's nice for you, but if or when it does happen you might not
>>> call it paranoia to be worried about this increasing surveillance
>>> society we're living under.
>> I worry more about the nanny state that is encroaching on us, ie;
>> must wear a crash helmet for a m/bike, also coming soon, not allowed to
>> smoke in my own car on my own, can't take certain photos in London,
>> can't take videos of our own kids at school etc.
>> I likes my choices in a supposedly free society.
> So don't you include in that the privacy to travel where you like,
> when you like, without anyone keeping records of what you do?

Of course not. It doesn't prevent me going where and when I like.
If they start to inhibit my movements, then I'll be concerned.


From: Bod on
On 24/03/2010 09:54, Conor wrote:
> On 24/03/2010 08:31, Bod wrote:
>> How long have you suffered from paranoia?
>> Bod
> Ask the guy who was wrongly convicted for the murder of Gill Dando.
> He was convicted purely on the fact he was in the area and minute traces
> of gunpowder were found in his pocket.

As I understand it, the police have learned from that mistake and no
longer accept such small quantities as hard evidence.

Look at it the other way, far more innocent suspects have been
eliminated from police enquiries by using DNA.

From: AlanG on
On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 19:45:20 +0000, "steve robinson"
<steve(a)> wrote:

>Conor wrote:
>> On 23/03/2010 11:07, Bod wrote:
>> > Don't you think that the information collated, could be used in a
>> > positive way?
>> >
>> No.
>> > You always look at the negative side of these things.
>> > Bod
>> Because the government have proven to be incapable of resisting the
>> urge to control every part of everyones life in any way they can.
>I would add that the government have single handedly lost more
>personal information than any other organisation , lacks the
>motivation to deal quickly with any errors and fails miserably to
>punish those involved in the misuse of our personal information .
>Google how many people within the government have the right to access
>your personal details without your consent , add in the local
>authorities , its frightening.
>Infact the only persons that cant gain access is the cleaners and
>they dont need to the infomations usally in the bin

Actually the local authority refuse disposal department will have
access too. Last time I saw an application form for HB/CTB it had a
list of every department in the council who could access your details.
Even included the taxi licensing office. That *may* have been clamped
down on since the rules were tightened a couple of years back to only
allow those with good reason to share data. But with bin police and
other spies I somehow doubt it.
From: boltar2003 on
On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 09:51:52 +0000
AlanG <invalid(a)> wrote:
>On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 23:27:07 +0000, Conor <conor(a)> wrote:
>>On 23/03/2010 20:04, Ret. wrote:
>>> These are simply traffic census points. Intended to discover traffic
>>> flow along a particular road and where it is coming from and going to -
>>> usually with the aim of improving local roads. Being rude and
>>> uncooperative is self-defeating.
>>What does where I've come from have to do with traffic flow? What does
>>who I am working for have to do with traffic flow? What does what I'm
>>carrying have to do with traffic flow? What does my name have to do with
>>traffic flow?
>>Surely, all it needs is those people you see sat at the side of a road
>>in pairs with a counter counting the traffic by category?
>Not even that. They used an ANPR system here last year and publicised
>what they were doing. (nice of them) Set a couple of portable cameras
>up at two points and collected all the data. All automated

Here in london there are a lot of UK nationals driving foreign registered
cars and even some RHD cars on foreign plates. The autorities with their
obsession with tracking only have themselves to blame. No surprise people
don't bother updating their details with the DVLA until they really have to.