"If you don't move I'll run you over".
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From: Iain on 2 Mar 2010 05:33 "Doug" <jagmad(a)riseup.net> wrote in message news:b54d8831-7bed-4c7f-8aeb-f6f05776218f(a)m37g2000yqf.googlegroups.com... It is becoming increasingly clear here that motorists believe the deliberate use of a car as a physical weapon is sometimes justified. Which, of course, explains a lot about the average motorist's mindset. =================== Surely you are beginning to realise and understand that cyclists who blatantly break the law (* see below) succeed in pushing even the most placid of motorists' buttons. To try and excuse this by saying such things as they make sure it is safe before they do so is simply no justification. And yes, there is an offence, 'Riding without due care and attention', as much as there is also an offence to ride a bicycle under the influence. There may even be an offence of dangerous riding! I leave it to you to prove me wrong! * I have previously qualified this by the examples of lights that already turned red, rather than trying to get through them as they are turning, or have just turned, red. Iain
From: Toom Tabard on 2 Mar 2010 05:33 On 2 Mar, 09:40, Doug <jag...(a)riseup.net> wrote: > On 2 Mar, 09:34, Toom Tabard <t...(a)tabard.freeserve.co.uk> wrote: > > > > > On 2 Mar, 09:06, Doug <jag...(a)riseup.net> wrote: > > > > On 2 Mar, 08:43, Toom Tabard <t...(a)tabard.freeserve.co.uk> wrote: > > > > > On 2 Mar, 06:35, Doug <jag...(a)riseup.net> wrote: > > > > > > It happens all over the world and seems to be tolerated by police > > > > > despite the deliberate intent. Is there an unspoken special > > > > > dispensation for drivers against cyclists? > > > > > > "...Friday evening, they corked the intersection of Peachtree St. and > > > > > Eighth. One motorist strongly took exception. > > > > > "You can't go through a red light if you're a vehicle," the motorist > > > > > is heard saying on a YouTube video. > > > > > > The video, shot by cyclist Matt Todd, shows the driver threatening to > > > > > strike a bicyclist with his car. > > > > > > "If you don't move, I'll run you over," he said just a few seconds > > > > > before putting the car in gear, lightly striking a bicyclist..." > > > > > > More with videos:http://www.11alive.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=141270&catid=3 > > > > > If you unlawfully and without good cause block someone's right to free > > > > passage, then they can use reasonable force to proceed (deciding to > > > > hold your own procession and block people to let your mates pass is > > > > unlikely to constitute good cause). > > > > Source? > > > > > If you further provoke by continuing to block free passage then that > > > > would be regarded as mitigating circumstances in defence of anyone > > > > assaulting you. > > > > It is not an issue of drivers-v-cyclists pers se. Try (with or without > > > > your bike) blocking a pedestrian on the pavement and refusing to let > > > > him pass. Don't be surprised if he tries to push past. Try continuing > > > > to block him. Don't be surprised if you end up with a fat lip. And, if > > > > you've videoed the whole thing, don't be surprised if a court finds > > > > you are entirely the author of your own misfortune. > > > > What is likely to happen and what can happen legally are not the same.. > > > Also I have no doubt that such a jury would consist of a majority of > > > motorists. > > > Many adults drive, and would be proportionately on a jury. That is not > > their only classification. I drive/walk/cycle. As a driver and > > pedestrian, I try to give extra consideration to cyclists and their > > safety. If I were on a jury in a road accident case, I'd be giving > > full and fair consideration to the case for any cyclist. In an > > obstruction and assault scenario, whether I'm a driver/pedestrian/ > > cyclist is irrelevant. Only the fairness and justice matters, and I > > would not favour the case for the cyclist in the example you've given. > > Similarly, in the second scenario I've given - blocking a pedestrian - > > it could equally be said that the jury would consist of a majority of > > pedestrians. That is equally irrelevant to the consideration of the > > issues in terms of right and justice. > > > In the real world, morally, legally and in terms of natural justice, > > you are backing a loser. > > I am still waiting to see where your assertion is enshrined in law > about someone's 'right to a free passage' entitles them to the violent > use of a weapon. > The right to use reasonable force is, in different contexts, in both common law and various statutes. The mitigation for assault, if provoked, is in sentencing guidelines. It would apply on a sliding scale from action which is common assault, but would not apply to causing grevious bodily harm with intent. It would apply to warning someone that you were going to push past and to any reasonable skirmish to do so, and particularly if it resulted in no more than minor bruising, swellings, abrasion, a black eye or a fat lip.. Toom
From: Vicko Zoomba on 2 Mar 2010 05:38 On 2 Mar, 07:13, Doug <jag...(a)riseup.net> wrote: > On 2 Mar, 07:01, Theodore <theodored...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Mon, 1 Mar 2010 22:35:11 -0800 (PST), Doug <jag...(a)riseup.net> > > wrote: > > > >It happens all over the world and seems to be tolerated by police > > >despite the deliberate intent. Is there an unspoken special > > >dispensation for drivers against cyclists? > > > >"...Friday evening, they corked the intersection of Peachtree St. and > > >Eighth. One motorist strongly took exception. > > >"You can't go through a red light if you're a vehicle," the motorist > > >is heard saying on a YouTube video. > > > >The video, shot by cyclist Matt Todd, shows the driver threatening to > > >strike a bicyclist with his car. > > > >"If you don't move, I'll run you over," he said just a few seconds > > >before putting the car in gear, lightly striking a bicyclist..." > > > >More with videos: > > >http://www.11alive.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=141270&catid=3 > > > LOL! Well done that driver. > > So you think that its OK for motorists to deliberately ram cyclists to > make them move out of the way and this should be allowed in law? Absolutely. Why should motorist have to abide by our increasingly strict traffic laws while cyclists are allowed to flaunt it? (many of whom are motorists themselves.) McKevvy
From: Mrcheerful on 2 Mar 2010 05:44 Iain wrote: > "Doug" <jagmad(a)riseup.net> wrote in message > news:b54d8831-7bed-4c7f-8aeb-f6f05776218f(a)m37g2000yqf.googlegroups.com... > > It is becoming increasingly clear here that motorists believe the > deliberate use of a car as a physical weapon is sometimes justified. > Which, of course, explains a lot about the average motorist's mindset. > > =================== > > Surely you are beginning to realise and understand that cyclists who > blatantly break the law (* see below) succeed in pushing even the most > placid of motorists' buttons. To try and excuse this by saying such > things as they make sure it is safe before they do so is simply no > justification. And yes, there is an offence, 'Riding without due care > and attention', as much as there is also an offence to ride a bicycle > under the influence. There may even be an offence of dangerous > riding! I leave it to you to prove me wrong! > > * I have previously qualified this by the examples of lights that > already turned red, rather than trying to get through them as they > are turning, or have just turned, red. > > Iain these are the main two from RTA1988: 28 Reckless cycling A person who rides a cycle on a road recklessly is guilty of an offence. 29 Careless, and inconsiderate, cycling If a person rides a cycle on a road without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road, he is guilty of an offence. So about 90 percent of cyclists commit offences every day, yet are not charged, why is that? is there some sort of blind eye turned because they are cyclists?
From: Conor on 2 Mar 2010 06:06
On 02/03/2010 06:35, Doug wrote: > It happens all over the world and seems to be tolerated by police > despite the deliberate intent. Is there an unspoken special > dispensation for drivers against cyclists? > > "...Friday evening, they corked the intersection of Peachtree St. and > Eighth. One motorist strongly took exception. They were breaking the law. They should be thrown in jail. -- Conor I'm not prejudiced. I hate everyone equally. |