Some drivers just never seem to learn
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From: GT on 31 Jul 2010 11:51 "Harry Bloomfield" <harry.m1byt(a)NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message news:mn.f5797da79987e554.106911(a)NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk... > on 30/07/2010, GT supposed : >> I don't agree with the statement about the silver car's 'bad >> positioning'. He was in the normal lane. Once the overtaking cars had >> passed, > > They were not actually overtaking, just both lanes drifting along at > fairly similar speeds. > >> they should have moved back over to the inside lane. Unless the silver >> car was playing 'silly buggers' and speeding up / slowing down, then the >> problem is much a far reaching 'bad lane etiquette' problem, rife >> throughout the UK. > > I don't think he was varying his speed by much, none the less he seemed > always to be in someone's blind spot with plenty of gap ahead of him to > move into and remove himself from the danger. Maybe he didn't want to undertake!
From: GT on 31 Jul 2010 11:54 "Ian Jackson" <ianREMOVETHISjackson(a)g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:K9vD9mIgp+UMFwpJ(a)g3ohx.demon.co.uk... > In message <JJednYlw1aOGSc7RnZ2dnUVZ8n2dnZ2d(a)bt.com>, Brimstone > <brimstone(a)hotmail.com> writes >> >>"Ian Jackson" <ianREMOVETHISjackson(a)g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote in message >>news:1cQcFxBeD9UMFwd8(a)g3ohx.demon.co.uk... >>> In message <Wd2dnWNY2urIW87RnZ2dnUVZ7omdnZ2d(a)bt.com>, Brimstone >>> <brimstone(a)hotmail.com> writes >>>> >>>>"Harry Bloomfield" <harry.m1byt(a)NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message >>>>news:mn.f9cb7da76f35771d.106911(a)NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk... >>>>> Brimstone laid this down on his screen : >>>>>> "Harry Bloomfield" <harry.m1byt(a)NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> wrote in >>>>>> message news:mn.f5797da79987e554.106911(a)NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk... >>>>>>> on 30/07/2010, GT supposed : >>>>>>>> I don't agree with the statement about the silver car's 'bad >>>>>>>> positioning'. He was in the normal lane. Once the overtaking cars >>>>>>> >>>>>>> They were not actually overtaking, just both lanes drifting along >>>>>>> fairly similar speeds. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> they should have moved back over to the inside lane. Unless the >>>>>>>> silver car was playing 'silly buggers' and speeding up / slowing >>>>>>>> down, then the problem is much a far reaching 'bad lane etiquette' >>>>>>>> problem, rife throughout the UK. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't think he was varying his speed by much, none the less he >>>>>>> seemed always to be in someone's blind spot with plenty of gap >>>>>>> ahead of him to move into and remove himself from the danger. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The inside lane is for everyone - the outer lanes are for >>>>>>>> overtaking. Move back to the inside lane when finished overtaking, >>>>>>>> even if you plan to overtake another vehicle in 40 experience, >>>>>>>> driving on the continent for about 10 minutes shows how lanes >>>>>>>> should work - we just don't 'get it' in the UK! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I agree completely. How come L1 and L2 can be totally devoid of any >>>>>>> vehicles for half a mile, yet there is a very dodgy nose to tail >>>>>>> queue in L3 for all of that distance as happened three times this >>>>>>> tea time on the A1/M. It makes absolutely no sense and it is very, >>>>>>> very dangerous. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Why do they all need to form a queue and make the delays so much >>>>>>> worse? >>>>>>> >>>>>> Because they're all waiting for the sluggard ahead to get out of way. >>>>> >>>>> I appreciate that, but why not use the other lanes so a safe distance >>>>> can be maintained? >>>>> >>>>Because they're all waiting for the sluggard ahead to get out of the way >>>>and they would lose their place in the queue. >>>> >>> The reason for the queue in L3 is quite simple: >>> >>> The 'sluggard ahead' in L3 (Car 1) is actually going very fast (say >>> 90mph). >>> >>> Someone going even faster (Car 2, at, say, 95mph) comes up behind him, >>> expecting Car 1 to get out of the way (which indeed he should). He comes >>> up close behind Car 1. >>> >>> The 'sluggard' in Car 1 does not get out of the way. The Car 2 guy >>> behind realises that he is dangerously close, and slows down to 85mph >>> for a few seconds to establish a longer gap. >>> >>> Car 3 (at 90mph) is coming up rapidly behind Car 2, and is getting too >>> close. He realises that Car 2 has slowed, and does likewise (to 80mph, >>> to widen the gap). >>> >>> Car 4 (at 85mph) now is coming up rapidly behind Car 3, and is getting >>> too close. He realises that Car 3 has slowed, and does likewise (to >>> 75mph, to widen the gap). >>> >>> Car 5 (at 80mph) now is coming up rapidly behind Car 4, and is getting >>> too close. He realises that Car 4 has slowed, and does likewise (to >>> 70mph, to widen the gap). >>> >>> Car 6 (at 75mph) now is coming up rapidly behind Car 5, and is getting >>> too close. He realises that Car 5 has slowed, and does likewise (to >>> 65mph, to widen the gap). >>> >>> Car 7 (at 70mph) now is coming up rapidly behind Car 6, and is getting >>> too close. He realises that Car 6 has slowed, and does likewise (to >>> 60mph, to widen the gap). >>> >>> As a result, Car 8, who had been pottering along at 70mph in L1, and had >>> been passed by all these fast guys in L3, has caught up with the 60mph >>> Car 7 at tail end of the queue in L3. All the time, of course, L2 has >>> been empty. >>> >>> The question is, what does Car 8 do next? >>> >>Which is a very long winded way of saying that they're all waiting for the >>sluggard in front to get out of the way. >> > True. But the point is that the tail end of the queue ends up by moving a > lot slower than the sluggard. And they are not waiting for the sluggard. > Don't blame him. He turned off the motorway 10 minutes earlier! They are > actually only waiting for the car in front to get out of the way. Which brings us right back to the point I made earlier - lane ettiquette is terrible in this country - we aren't taught it as part of the driving test, so no one knows how to drive on motorways or multilane roads. There is a possibility that on a driving test, you might be taken on to a NSL road for a while, but its not likely to be multi-lane as the test is only 40 minutes and has to fit in lots of other things and doesn't have time for a blast down a dual carriageway and back.
From: Brimstone on 31 Jul 2010 12:09 "GT" <a(a)b.c> wrote in message news:4c544749$0$12292$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com... > Which brings us right back to the point I made earlier - lane ettiquette > is terrible in this country - we aren't taught it as part of the driving > test, so no one knows how to drive on motorways or multilane roads. There > is a possibility that on a driving test, you might be taken on to a NSL > road for a while, but its not likely to be multi-lane as the test is only > 40 minutes and has to fit in lots of other things and doesn't have time > for a blast down a dual carriageway and back. The Highway Code does tell us that we should keep left unless overtaking. http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069862 Lane discipline 264 You should always drive in the left-hand lane when the road ahead is clear. If you are overtaking a number of slower-moving vehicles, you should return to the left-hand lane as soon as you are safely past. Slow-moving or speed-restricted vehicles should always remain in the left-hand lane of the carriageway unless overtaking. You MUST NOT drive on the hard shoulder except in an emergency or if directed to do so by the police, HA traffic officers in uniform or by signs. [Laws MT(E&W)R regs 5, 9 & 16(1)(a), MT(S)R regs 4, 8 & 14(1)(a), and RTA 1988, sects 35 & 186, as amended by TMA 2004 sect 6]
From: Ian Jackson on 31 Jul 2010 12:50 In message <4c544749$0$12292$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com>, GT <a(a)b.c> writes >"Ian Jackson" <ianREMOVETHISjackson(a)g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote in message >news:K9vD9mIgp+UMFwpJ(a)g3ohx.demon.co.uk... >> In message <JJednYlw1aOGSc7RnZ2dnUVZ8n2dnZ2d(a)bt.com>, Brimstone >> <brimstone(a)hotmail.com> writes >>> >>>"Ian Jackson" <ianREMOVETHISjackson(a)g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote in message >>>news:1cQcFxBeD9UMFwd8(a)g3ohx.demon.co.uk... >>>> In message <Wd2dnWNY2urIW87RnZ2dnUVZ7omdnZ2d(a)bt.com>, Brimstone >>>> <brimstone(a)hotmail.com> writes >>>>> >>>>>"Harry Bloomfield" <harry.m1byt(a)NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message >>>>>news:mn.f9cb7da76f35771d.106911(a)NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk... >>>>>> Brimstone laid this down on his screen : >>>>>>> "Harry Bloomfield" <harry.m1byt(a)NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> wrote in >>>>>>> message news:mn.f5797da79987e554.106911(a)NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk... >>>>>>>> on 30/07/2010, GT supposed : >>>>>>>>> I don't agree with the statement about the silver car's 'bad >>>>>>>>> positioning'. He was in the normal lane. Once the overtaking cars >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> They were not actually overtaking, just both lanes drifting along >>>>>>>> fairly similar speeds. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> they should have moved back over to the inside lane. Unless the >>>>>>>>> silver car was playing 'silly buggers' and speeding up / slowing >>>>>>>>> down, then the problem is much a far reaching 'bad lane etiquette' >>>>>>>>> problem, rife throughout the UK. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I don't think he was varying his speed by much, none the less he >>>>>>>> seemed always to be in someone's blind spot with plenty of gap >>>>>>>> ahead of him to move into and remove himself from the danger. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The inside lane is for everyone - the outer lanes are for >>>>>>>>> overtaking. Move back to the inside lane when finished overtaking, >>>>>>>>> even if you plan to overtake another vehicle in 40 experience, >>>>>>>>> driving on the continent for about 10 minutes shows how lanes >>>>>>>>> should work - we just don't 'get it' in the UK! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I agree completely. How come L1 and L2 can be totally devoid of any >>>>>>>> vehicles for half a mile, yet there is a very dodgy nose to tail >>>>>>>> queue in L3 for all of that distance as happened three times this >>>>>>>> tea time on the A1/M. It makes absolutely no sense and it is very, >>>>>>>> very dangerous. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Why do they all need to form a queue and make the delays so much >>>>>>>> worse? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Because they're all waiting for the sluggard ahead to get out of way. >>>>>> >>>>>> I appreciate that, but why not use the other lanes so a safe distance >>>>>> can be maintained? >>>>>> >>>>>Because they're all waiting for the sluggard ahead to get out of the way >>>>>and they would lose their place in the queue. >>>>> >>>> The reason for the queue in L3 is quite simple: >>>> >>>> The 'sluggard ahead' in L3 (Car 1) is actually going very fast (say >>>> 90mph). >>>> >>>> Someone going even faster (Car 2, at, say, 95mph) comes up behind him, >>>> expecting Car 1 to get out of the way (which indeed he should). He comes >>>> up close behind Car 1. >>>> >>>> The 'sluggard' in Car 1 does not get out of the way. The Car 2 guy >>>> behind realises that he is dangerously close, and slows down to 85mph >>>> for a few seconds to establish a longer gap. >>>> >>>> Car 3 (at 90mph) is coming up rapidly behind Car 2, and is getting too >>>> close. He realises that Car 2 has slowed, and does likewise (to 80mph, >>>> to widen the gap). >>>> >>>> Car 4 (at 85mph) now is coming up rapidly behind Car 3, and is getting >>>> too close. He realises that Car 3 has slowed, and does likewise (to >>>> 75mph, to widen the gap). >>>> >>>> Car 5 (at 80mph) now is coming up rapidly behind Car 4, and is getting >>>> too close. He realises that Car 4 has slowed, and does likewise (to >>>> 70mph, to widen the gap). >>>> >>>> Car 6 (at 75mph) now is coming up rapidly behind Car 5, and is getting >>>> too close. He realises that Car 5 has slowed, and does likewise (to >>>> 65mph, to widen the gap). >>>> >>>> Car 7 (at 70mph) now is coming up rapidly behind Car 6, and is getting >>>> too close. He realises that Car 6 has slowed, and does likewise (to >>>> 60mph, to widen the gap). >>>> >>>> As a result, Car 8, who had been pottering along at 70mph in L1, and had >>>> been passed by all these fast guys in L3, has caught up with the 60mph >>>> Car 7 at tail end of the queue in L3. All the time, of course, L2 has >>>> been empty. >>>> >>>> The question is, what does Car 8 do next? >>>> >>>Which is a very long winded way of saying that they're all waiting for the >>>sluggard in front to get out of the way. >>> >> True. But the point is that the tail end of the queue ends up by moving a >> lot slower than the sluggard. And they are not waiting for the sluggard. >> Don't blame him. He turned off the motorway 10 minutes earlier! They are >> actually only waiting for the car in front to get out of the way. > >Which brings us right back to the point I made earlier - lane ettiquette is >terrible in this country - we aren't taught it as part of the driving test, >so no one knows how to drive on motorways or multilane roads. There is a >possibility that on a driving test, you might be taken on to a NSL road for >a while, but its not likely to be multi-lane as the test is only 40 minutes >and has to fit in lots of other things and doesn't have time for a blast >down a dual carriageway and back. > I don't know what's in the modern driving test. However, whatever's being taught about motorways, there are those who have passed their test relatively recently, and they will swear blind that there is a 'slow lane', a 'fast lane', and an 'overtaking lane'. I thought that that died over 40 years ago. -- Ian
From: Harry Bloomfield on 31 Jul 2010 13:17
Ian Jackson formulated on Saturday : > In message <Wd2dnWNY2urIW87RnZ2dnUVZ7omdnZ2d(a)bt.com>, Brimstone > <brimstone(a)hotmail.com> writes >> >>"Harry Bloomfield" <harry.m1byt(a)NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message >> news:mn.f9cb7da76f35771d.106911(a)NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk... >>> Brimstone laid this down on his screen : >>>> "Harry Bloomfield" <harry.m1byt(a)NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message >>>> news:mn.f5797da79987e554.106911(a)NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk... >>>>> on 30/07/2010, GT supposed : >>>>>> I don't agree with the statement about the silver car's 'bad >>>>>> positioning'. He was in the normal lane. Once the overtaking cars had >>>>>> passed, >>>>> >>>>> They were not actually overtaking, just both lanes drifting along fairly >>>>> similar speeds. >>>>> >>>>>> they should have moved back over to the inside lane. Unless the silver >>>>>> car was playing 'silly buggers' and speeding up / slowing down, then >>>>>> the problem is much a far reaching 'bad lane etiquette' problem, rife >>>>>> throughout the UK. >>>>> >>>>> I don't think he was varying his speed by much, none the less he seemed >>>>> always to be in someone's blind spot with plenty of gap ahead of him to >>>>> move into and remove himself from the danger. >>>>> >>>>>> The inside lane is for everyone - the outer lanes are for overtaking. >>>>>> Move back to the inside lane when finished overtaking, even if you plan >>>>>> to overtake another vehicle in 40 seconds time. In my experience, >>>>>> driving on the continent for about 10 minutes shows how lanes should >>>>>> work - we just don't 'get it' in the UK! >>>>> >>>>> I agree completely. How come L1 and L2 can be totally devoid of any >>>>> vehicles for half a mile, yet there is a very dodgy nose to tail queue >>>>> in L3 for all of that distance as happened three times this tea time on >>>>> the A1/M. It makes absolutely no sense and it is very, very dangerous. >>>>> >>>>> Why do they all need to form a queue and make the delays so much worse? >>>>> >>>> Because they're all waiting for the sluggard ahead to get out of the way. >>> >>> I appreciate that, but why not use the other lanes so a safe distance can >>> be maintained? >>> >>Because they're all waiting for the sluggard ahead to get out of the way and >> they would lose their place in the queue. >> > The reason for the queue in L3 is quite simple: > > The 'sluggard ahead' in L3 (Car 1) is actually going very fast (say 90mph). > > Someone going even faster (Car 2, at, say, 95mph) comes up behind him, > expecting Car 1 to get out of the way (which indeed he should). He comes up > close behind Car 1. > > The 'sluggard' in Car 1 does not get out of the way. The Car 2 guy behind > realises that he is dangerously close, and slows down to 85mph for a few > seconds to establish a longer gap. > > Car 3 (at 90mph) is coming up rapidly behind Car 2, and is getting too close. > He realises that Car 2 has slowed, and does likewise (to 80mph, to widen the > gap). > > Car 4 (at 85mph) now is coming up rapidly behind Car 3, and is getting too > close. He realises that Car 3 has slowed, and does likewise (to 75mph, to > widen the gap). > > Car 5 (at 80mph) now is coming up rapidly behind Car 4, and is getting too > close. He realises that Car 4 has slowed, and does likewise (to 70mph, to > widen the gap). > > Car 6 (at 75mph) now is coming up rapidly behind Car 5, and is getting too > close. He realises that Car 5 has slowed, and does likewise (to 65mph, to > widen the gap). > > Car 7 (at 70mph) now is coming up rapidly behind Car 6, and is getting too > close. He realises that Car 6 has slowed, and does likewise (to 60mph, to > widen the gap). > > As a result, Car 8, who had been pottering along at 70mph in L1, and had been > passed by all these fast guys in L3, has caught up with the 60mph Car 7 at > tail end of the queue in L3. All the time, of course, L2 has been empty. > > The question is, what does Car 8 do next? So remind me - why car 8 have need to pull out at all. Why doesn't he (and the rest of them) ease off if needed, use the left lanes and maintain a sensible gap? There really is no need for them all to pile into L3. -- Regards, Harry (M1BYT) (L) http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk |