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From: Nick Finnigan on 10 Jul 2010 10:27 Chelsea Tractor Man wrote: > > A lot is going to depend on how you do the comparison, I will be surprised > if a ship makes less CO2 or uses less fuel, to move a kilo of payload. Ships will generally be better for low value non-perishable freight. > especially if you take account of the altitude effect. > Obviously a huge yatch with one pasenger is worse than a packed out > steerage class plane. But not for passengers, which was the main point.
From: Mrcheerful on 10 Jul 2010 10:32 Colin McKenzie wrote: > On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 07:10:51 +0100, Chelsea Tractor Man > <mr.c.tractor(a)hotmail.co.uk> wrote: > >> thats as good a proof as we need. I can move a loaded narrowboat on >> the end of a rope, I cannot keep that weight up in the air. > > Which is, frankly, not the point. We're talking about big ships > weighing tens of thousands of tons, vs aeroplanes weighing around 100 > tons. > Accurate figures are not too easy to find on the www, but here are a > couple of data points (with my comments in []): > "According to the Cruise Log for a recent sailing on HAL's Noordam, > the ship uses 80,000 gallons of fuel per day for 10 days, and > traveled 3,752 statute miles (3,263 nautical miles). Divide that by > 1,979 guests and 795 crew aboard and, per person, we get 13 miles per > gallon per person." > [Which is worse than long-haul air and probably worse than short-haul > too. And assumes the ship is full.] > > "An inconspicuous plant could soon embark on a career as a climate > saver: hairs on the surface of water ferns are to allow ships to have > a 10 per cent decrease in fuel consumption. ...... > > "Fuel saved world wide: one per cent > And it is one with huge technical potential to boot. Up to now with > container ships more than half of the propulsion energy is lost > through friction of the water at the hull. With an air layer this > loss could be reduced by ten per cent according to the researchers' > estimate. Since ships are huge fuel guzzlers, the total effect would > be enormous. 'Probably one per cent of the fuel consumption worldwide > could be saved this way, is Professor Barthlott's prognosis." > > [So about 10% of worldwide oil consumption is shipping.] > > Colin McKenzie Put some sails up and that fuel bill could be much reduced. I was very amused while reading a boating newspaper to see that the fishing ships were going to be saving umpteen hundred thousand pounds a year: they had re-discovered sails. To read the article it seemed like they were unaware of wind power before.
From: Steve Firth on 10 Jul 2010 14:34 Chelsea Tractor Man <mr.c.tractor(a)hotmail.co.uk> wrote: > Obviously a huge yatch with one pasenger is worse than a packed out > steerage class plane. <cough>obblers. In all the time that I owned my yacht it didn't even use one tank of fuel, you see yachts have these things called "sails". Of course a yatch may use much more fuel than a yacht.
From: Doug on 11 Jul 2010 01:13 On 9 July, 08:29, Adrian <toomany2...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Doug <smi...(a)btinternet.com> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were > saying: > > >> Maybe it does, but many of us prize the ability to not live in an inner > >> city shithole. > > And yet a large majority choose to live in such places. > > Care to put some numbers to that? No, thought you might not. > > So I will. > > UK population - ~60m > Total population of 10 biggest cities in UK - 12.15m > > London - 7.2m > Brum - 1m > Leeds - 720k > Glasgow - 560k > Sheffield - 512k > Bradford - 467k > Edinburgh - 450k > Liverpool - 440k > Manc - 420k > Bristol - 380k > (and down to a whole bunch of 'ickle places) > > http://www.ukcities.co.uk/populations/ > Then how do you account for the fact that less than 26% of the population live in rural areas? I assume that most market towns, aka shitholes, have bus and sometimes train services which would make the use of a car merely a choice. Doug.
From: ChelseaTractorMan on 11 Jul 2010 06:59
On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 19:34:11 +0100, %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote: >> Obviously a huge yatch with one pasenger is worse than a packed out >> steerage class plane. > ><cough>obblers. > >In all the time that I owned my yacht it didn't even use one tank of >fuel, you see yachts have these things called "sails". Of course a yatch >may use much more fuel than a yacht. I would have thought anybody reading for sense would realize I'm referring to a gin palace type yatch -- Chelsea Tractor Man Gone Beyond the Ultimate Driving Machine |