for the guys that are into recreational oil changing...
in [Technical]
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From: Mark on 31 Mar 2010 08:33 If there are other pools of oil in the engine, why doesn't the oil turn dark right away? What is the percentage difference between 5% old oil left and 1%? Think it's 4%? On Mar 30, 11:15 am, jim beam <m...(a)privacy.net> wrote: > > Does that really matter? > > of course not. the percentage difference it makes is vanishingly small.. > and that's not including the fact that some engines have oil > deliberately pooled in locations that don't drain - to protect cam > shafts for instance. new oil simply dilutes - unless the engine is > completely stripped and cleaned, it's never a complete "change".
From: jim on 31 Mar 2010 09:12 SMS wrote: > > If 3000 mile oil changes are "cheap insurance" why aren't they changing > the oil every 1500 miles or every 750 miles, and buying as much of that > cheap insurance as they can get? So why do you care? That is really the much more interesting question. I know people who clean their house every day - sometimes twice a day. Given that there are people who keep their houses spotless why isn't their a similar cohort of self-appointed internet mavens that are out their trying to convince others that it is bad to clean house too often? Some people don't like to have black oil in their engines just like some people can't stand to see a speck of dirt in their house. Why is it that the one attracts so much criticism while the other goes without comment? The question is why are there so many zealots on the internet that feel it is their mission in life to convince other motorists that it is good to be driving around with black oil in their engines? What sort of belief system drives a person to go around trying to convert others to black engine oil? -jim
From: jim beam on 31 Mar 2010 09:39 On 03/31/2010 06:12 AM, jim wrote: > > > SMS wrote: > >> >> If 3000 mile oil changes are "cheap insurance" why aren't they changing >> the oil every 1500 miles or every 750 miles, and buying as much of that >> cheap insurance as they can get? > > So why do you care? That is really the much more interesting question. > > I know people who clean their house every day - sometimes twice a day. > Given that there are people who keep their houses spotless why isn't > their a similar cohort of self-appointed internet mavens that are out > their trying to convince others that it is bad to clean house too > often? > Some people don't like to have black oil in their engines just like > some people can't stand to see a speck of dirt in their house. Why is it > that the one attracts so much criticism while the other goes without > comment? > > The question is why are there so many zealots on the internet that feel > it is their mission in life to convince other motorists that it is good > to be driving around with black oil in their engines? What sort of > belief system drives a person to go around trying to convert others to > black engine oil? > > -jim ooooh, "black oil" is evil!!! dude, have you ever worked on diesels? those things have "black oil" almost instantly. what then - change the oil every 500 miles? or are you going to bother to bust open a can of brains, figure out what matters based on research and learn that "black oil" doesn't mean a damned thing? here's how it works: combustion produces, among other things, soot. soot is black. i'm sure you're with me so far. but, oil lubrication in a car engine uses something called "hydrodynamic separation". simply, that means the metal bits in a car don't actually touch, they are separated by an oil film. that oil film has a measurable thickness http://www.answers.com/topic/lubrication-5 if your soot particles are small enough to "fit" in the hydrodynamic film, the metals surfaces don't even know they're there. and that's the job of the oil filter - to makes sure that the big particles are trapped and only the harmless stuff flows through. beyond that, if the oil is chemically and thermally stable, and has the chemical ingredients to handle other combustion products like acid, and the filter is working properly, "black oil" is actually an indication that the oil is doing its job properly - it is holding everything in suspension and continuing to flow. http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024(a)N00/4291579733/ -- nomina rutrum rutrum
From: jim beam on 31 Mar 2010 09:40 On 03/31/2010 04:38 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote: > In article<ZbmdnZW5tr6eSy_WnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net>, > jim beam<me(a)privacy.net> wrote: > >>> let me put it another way; you'd have to be an idiot to believe you >>> can project the results from a year test on fleet vehicles to 10 years >>> or more of normal passenger car use. not to mention folks in cold >>> country are rightfully skeptical of tests conducted in CA. >> >> superstition beats science every time - there's /always/ some >> superstitious excuse. > > Just ask the folks who are holding their breaths to get on a jury for a > Toyota lawsuit, so they can justify their superstition by awarding a > huge settlement to people who are CLEARLY the victims of cosmic rays > banging on their ECUs and gas pedals. that cosmic ray story was a typical microsoft bullshit excuse for writing crappy code. then came linux that didnt crash running on the same machine and yet another bullshit ignorant superstition was exploded. -- nomina rutrum rutrum
From: jim beam on 31 Mar 2010 09:43
On 03/31/2010 05:33 AM, Mark wrote: > On Mar 30, 11:15�am, jim beam<m...(a)privacy.net> wrote: >>> Does that really matter? >> >> of course not. �the percentage difference it makes is vanishingly small. >> � and that's not including the fact that some engines have oil >> deliberately pooled in locations that don't drain - to protect cam >> shafts for instance. �new oil simply dilutes - unless the engine is >> completely stripped and cleaned, it's never a complete "change". <fixed top posting> > If there are other pools of oil in the engine, why doesn't the oil > turn dark right away? What is the percentage difference between 5% > old oil left and 1%? Think it's 4%? > > like i said - dilution. suggest you go to a junk yard and look at a few engines with the rocker cover removed - you'll see examples of these pooling features and the camshafts that sit in them. honda d-series is one example. -- nomina rutrum rutrum |