Gulf oil spill dispersant
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From: cuhulin on 29 May 2010 19:13 I reckon my dog is a Republican.She does ok chasing my flashlight spot light around and around in a circle.But if I wave that light around and around counter clockwise, she falters and stumbles. I need to make an appointment with the vet to get her toenails trimmed, she wont let me trim them. cuhulin
From: hls on 29 May 2010 20:12 "APLer" <APLer(a)floor.tilde> wrote in message >> > No, soap can be lye, javex, or *anything* that is a base when disolved > in water. That's why there can be a second type of bleach>> Wrong.. Absolutely wrong. Totally wrong. Lye (caustic soda or sodium hydroxide) is not soap. A "soap" is defined as the sodium salt of a fatty acid, simply. Bar soap was for years a sodium soap of mixed fatty acids from animal or plant sources. Surfactants are not necessarily soaps. Your chemistry sucks. > Give me a link to an example where this *has* completely undone an oil > spill then. Just one. Bacteria and surfactants have been used all over the southern USA to remediate oil contaminated soil. Oil dispersants have been used all over the Gulf of Mexico for many many years to eliminate oil sheens. If your only life is the internet, you have no expertise in this area. I believe they are ordinarily used, as I mentioned above, in a negative way, to "hide" the obvious effects of a sheen or spill.
From: hls on 29 May 2010 20:14 "chuckcar" <chuck(a)nil.car> wrote in message >> > No, soap can be lye, javex, or *anything* that is a base when disolved > in water. That's why there can be a second type of bleach. Look, Chuckles...I dont know what javex is. But lye is not soap. It has some ability to clean, but that doesnt make it a soap. Where the heck did bleach get into this conversation???
From: hls on 29 May 2010 20:20 "chuckcar" <chuck(a)nil.car> wrote in message news:Xns9D8797C456499chuck(a)127.0.0.1... > kludge(a)panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in > news:htrkvl$957$1(a)panix2.panix.com: > >> In article <Xns9D875FA99F341chuck(a)127.0.0.1>, chuckcar >> <chuck(a)nil.car> wrote: >>>No, soap can be lye, javex, or *anything* that is a base when disolved >>>in water. That's why there can be a second type of bleach. >> >> Ummm... no. In fact, there are surfactants that aren't even alkaline. >> Surfactants lower surface tension and make oil and water miscible. >> That is their job, and that is why soap takes grease off your body in >> the shower. > > No, you're confusing the difference. > > From wiki: > > Surfactants reduce the surface tension of water by adsorbing at the > liquid-gas interface. They also reduce the interfacial tension between > oil and water by adsorbing at the liquid-liquid interface. Many > surfactants can also assemble in the bulk solution into aggregates. > > Note they say *many* and not all. Soaps are a subclass and the soap > property is what I was talking about, not the effect of decreasing > surface tension, which in itself wouldn't help a bit. I was talking > about using the soap to collect the oil. As I stated in my original > post. A plain surfactant would just mix the two. > > Further to this later on the that same article they call soaps Anioic > surfactants. This ionic behavior is what actually attracts the grease > and oil molecules > Soaps are not used to aggregate oil, for the most part. And they dont absorb at the liquid interfaces.. they adsorb, and they do drop the surface tension. The surface tension between oil and water, regardless of the additive, almost always decreases when you add a surface active chemical. There are a few (very few) cases where an additive will cause the surface tension to increase, but the increase is always very small. You do not use soaps to collect oil, when taken alone. You can pass oil and water dispersions through a gas dispersion unit, and bring the oil out riding on air bubbles, sometimes. And sometimes the right surfactant helps this process. You can separate emulsions by the use of surface active materials of special design. These are not normally soaps either. They act to break the interfacial film which stabilizes emulsions, and allow the oil to aggregate. This is called demulsification or emulsion breaking, is dependent upon special surfactants (NOT soaps), and is a different process from oil dispersion. Your chemistry still sucks.
From: chuckcar on 29 May 2010 20:22
"hls" <hls(a)nospam.nix> wrote in news:sMWdnQh2g9_3MJzRnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d(a)giganews.com: > > "APLer" <APLer(a)floor.tilde> wrote in message >>> >> No, soap can be lye, javex, or *anything* that is a base when >> disolved in water. That's why there can be a second type of bleach>> > > Wrong.. Absolutely wrong. Totally wrong. Lye (caustic soda or sodium > hydroxide) is not soap. A "soap" is defined as the sodium salt of a > fatty acid, > simply. Bar soap was for years a sodium soap of mixed fatty acids > from animal or plant sources. Surfactants are not necessarily soaps. > Your chemistry sucks. > > Believe what you want. I'm tired of stating solid facts that you disagree with. > > >> Give me a link to an example where this *has* completely undone an >> oil spill then. Just one. > > > Bacteria and surfactants have been used all over the southern USA to > remediate oil contaminated soil. Oil dispersants have been used all > over the Gulf of Mexico for many many years to eliminate oil sheens. > If your only life is the internet, you have no expertise in this area. > > I believe they are ordinarily used, as I mentioned above, in a > negative way, to "hide" the obvious effects of a sheen or spill. > > So no concrete example then. I figured as much. -- (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) ) |