Paul Smith
in [UK Drivers]
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From: Nick on 20 Dec 2007 09:41 PK wrote: > "Nick" <nospam(a)spam.com> wrote in message > news:476a575f$0$13932$fa0fcedb(a)news.zen.co.uk... >> >>> The most stupid actions were those that would squeeze down the side >>> of the bus at junctions - even when I was signalling to turn left! >>> They would put themselves straight into the blindpot and sit there. I >>> never collided with one as I always spotted them early, but I am >>> never surprised when I hear of a cyclist being run down. >>> >> >> So you felt it was OK to continue driving in a way that put other road >> users lives at risk. Presumably this is because you felt it would be >> their fault if you did kill them? >> >> I realise that professional drivers come from the lower end of the >> intelligence scale but can you not see this was exactly my point. > > > I think you have demonstrated by that non sequiter Can you point out where you think the non sequitur occurs? > that it is you who > comes from the lower end of the intelligence scale: the cyclists were > putting themselves in danger by their positioning and the driver was > observing and behaving correctly. > Clearly you are just trying to trade insults. However we can't really get away from the fact that professional drivers do tend to be unskilled and not very clever. A rough proxy for how society values the talents of a professional driver can be seen by the relatively low pay that the job commands. The other interesting fact is that despite the risks cycling does on average increase ones lifespan. > pk
From: Brimstone on 20 Dec 2007 09:54 Peter Clinch wrote: > Adrian wrote: > >> VERY VERY few collisions have >> just one participant at fault. > > That is a fair comment, but of course what I'm actually getting at > primarily is the simple /existence/ of lorries in my space. They're > often there and I really can't help that, and Brimstone's "just don't > be near lorries" misses that completely. > Which isn't what I said. > I can choose not to steer > close to them, but I can't choose whether they steer close to me > because I'm not at the controls of the lorry. How is that at variance with what I actually posted?
From: Brimstone on 20 Dec 2007 09:59 Nick wrote: > PK wrote: >> "Nick" <nospam(a)spam.com> wrote in message >> news:476a575f$0$13932$fa0fcedb(a)news.zen.co.uk... >>> >>>> The most stupid actions were those that would squeeze down the side >>>> of the bus at junctions - even when I was signalling to turn left! >>>> They would put themselves straight into the blindpot and sit >>>> there. I never collided with one as I always spotted them early, >>>> but I am never surprised when I hear of a cyclist being run down. >>>> >>> >>> So you felt it was OK to continue driving in a way that put other >>> road users lives at risk. Presumably this is because you felt it >>> would be their fault if you did kill them? >>> >>> I realise that professional drivers come from the lower end of the >>> intelligence scale but can you not see this was exactly my point. >> >> >> I think you have demonstrated by that non sequiter > > Can you point out where you think the non sequitur occurs? > > >> that it is you who >> comes from the lower end of the intelligence scale: the cyclists were >> putting themselves in danger by their positioning and the driver was >> observing and behaving correctly. >> > > Clearly you are just trying to trade insults. > > However we can't really get away from the fact that professional > drivers do tend to be unskilled and not very clever. How many lorry drivers have you met and had conversations with, how many have you studied at their work? > A rough proxy > for how society values the talents of a professional driver can be > seen by the relatively low pay that the job commands. Only in the UK where it is customary to denigrate anyone who does a useful job. In other European countries drivers are treated with the respect the relative importance of the job deserves. > The other interesting fact is that despite the risks cycling does on > average increase ones lifespan. > Only if one behaves appropriate whilst on the road.
From: Adrian on 20 Dec 2007 10:03 Peter Clinch (Peter Clinch <p.j.clinch(a)dundee.ac.uk>) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: >> To try to pretend otherwise suggests that there's absolutely no point >> whatsoever to defensive road use. > But I'm not pretending any such thing, just pointing out I can't simply > stay a wide berth clear of lorries because they are prone to driving > past me and behind me where there's little I can do but hope the driver > is on the ball. Very true. But what you CAN do is to minimise the chance that a driver who is sort of wavering around near the ball doesn't just blither past you. MAKE him see you. MAKE him think about you. GET in his face a bit. That's what's we're trying to emphasise. Just sitting there like a lemon whinging about it being inevitable that cars squeeze past your bike when there isn't really space just shows that your road positioning is wrong. But that doesn't mean that where there IS space you can't help them past you easily and safely. Just vary your road positioning. Traffic island coming up? Move out from the kerb a bit so they CAN'T squeeze past. Past the island? Move back in, and wave a thank you. The same is easy to apply at junctions. You're there first? Get in the middle of the lane. Then they CAN'T pull alongside and turn left without indication. They've seen you, they've thought about you - because you took ownership of the space around you.
From: Brimstone on 20 Dec 2007 10:22
Adrian wrote: > Peter Clinch (Peter Clinch <p.j.clinch(a)dundee.ac.uk>) gurgled happily, > sounding much like they were saying: > >>> To try to pretend otherwise suggests that there's absolutely no >>> point whatsoever to defensive road use. > >> But I'm not pretending any such thing, just pointing out I can't >> simply stay a wide berth clear of lorries because they are prone to >> driving past me and behind me where there's little I can do but hope >> the driver is on the ball. > > Very true. But what you CAN do is to minimise the chance that a driver > who is sort of wavering around near the ball doesn't just blither past > you. MAKE him see you. MAKE him think about you. GET in his face a > bit. > > That's what's we're trying to emphasise. Just sitting there like a > lemon whinging about it being inevitable that cars squeeze past your > bike when there isn't really space just shows that your road > positioning is wrong. But that doesn't mean that where there IS space > you can't help them past you easily and safely. Just vary your road > positioning. Traffic island coming up? Move out from the kerb a bit > so they CAN'T squeeze past. Past the island? Move back in, and wave a > thank you. > > The same is easy to apply at junctions. You're there first? Get in the > middle of the lane. Then they CAN'T pull alongside and turn left > without indication. > > They've seen you, they've thought about you - because you took > ownership of the space around you. DING!!!! |