Paul Smith
in [UK Drivers]
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From: Colin Nelson on 20 Dec 2007 03:46 "Ekul Namsob" <notmyaddress.1.ekulnamsob(a)wronghead.com> wrote in message news:1i9dxar.1tulmeybdfcjjN%notmyaddress.1.ekulnamsob(a)wronghead.com... > Do you condone cycling on pavements? Many cyclists have put their > 'self-preservation' skills into effect and decided that they would be > better off there. Indeed, I believe that fear of injury is a defence for > people charged with pavement cycling. [1] > > Cheers, > Luke > > > [1] As with so many things, I cannot provide a source for that. > > -- Could be this :- [ On 1st August 1999, new legislation came into force to allow a fixed penalty notice to be served on anyone who is guilty of cycling on a footway. However the Home Office issued guidance on how the new legislation should be applied, indicating that they should only be used where a cyclist is riding in a manner that may endanger others. At the time Home Office Minister Paul Boateng issued a letter stating that: "The introduction of the fixed penalty is not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of traffic and who show consideration to other pavement users when doing so. Chief police officers, who are responsible for enforcement, acknowledge that many cyclists, particularly children and young people, are afraid to cycle on the road, sensitivity and careful use of police discretion is required." Almost identical advice has since been issued by the Home Office with regards the use of fixed penalty notices by 'Community Support Officers' and wardens. "CSOs and accredited persons will be accountable in the same way as police officers. They will be under the direction and control of the chief officer, supervised on a daily basis by the local community beat officer and will be subject to the same police complaints system. The Government have included provision in the Anti Social Behaviour Bill to enable CSOs and accredited persons to stop those cycling irresponsibly on the pavement in order to issue a fixed penalty notice. I should stress that the issue is about inconsiderate cycling on the pavements. The new provisions are not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of the traffic, and who show consideration to other road users when doing so. Chief officers recognise that the fixed penalty needs to be used with a considerable degree of discretion and it cannot be issued to anyone under the age of 16. (Letter to Mr H. Peel from John Crozier of The Home Office, reference T5080/4, 23 February 2004) ] Copied from http://www.bikeforall.net/content/cycling_and_the_law.php -- Colin N. Lincolnshire is mostly flat ... But the wind is mostly in your face
From: Adrian on 20 Dec 2007 04:28 Brimstone ("Brimstone" <brimstone520-ng01(a)yahoo.co.uk>) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: > That's just about cyclist hiding size. ....and then there's the bloody great big thick heavy pillars on modern cars - the Golf I had the other week could have hidden _cars_ in the blindspots, let alone cyclists. But they're that thick for safety, apparently... <rolls eyes>
From: Alan Braggins on 20 Dec 2007 04:26 In article <M9iaj.10784$h35.2172(a)newsfe2-gui.ntli.net>, MrBitsy wrote: >Alan Braggins wrote: >> >> Exactly. Just telling cyclists to keep clear of lorries isn't the >> whole answer, the drivers have to pay attention too. (Which almost >> all of them do, almost all of the time.) > >Which we have all said throuought this thread All? Did you not see Brimstone's post and Pete's reply to it?
From: Peter Clinch on 20 Dec 2007 04:51 Alan Braggins wrote: > In article <M9iaj.10784$h35.2172(a)newsfe2-gui.ntli.net>, MrBitsy wrote: >> Alan Braggins wrote: >>> Exactly. Just telling cyclists to keep clear of lorries isn't the >>> whole answer, the drivers have to pay attention too. (Which almost >>> all of them do, almost all of the time.) >> Which we have all said throuought this thread > > All? Did you not see Brimstone's post and Pete's reply to it? Indeed. I think it's fair to say that a lot of the heat from the cycling side has come solely from the suggestion in Brimstone's post that we should just avoid lorries, period. That Brimstone either didn't word his post very carefully and/or is in a minority doesn't remove the post from the thread. Pete. -- Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net p.j.clinch(a)dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
From: Nick on 20 Dec 2007 05:04
MrBitsy wrote: > Alan Braggins wrote: >> In article <D7baj.14781$Hc3.13169(a)newsfe1-gui.ntli.net>, NM wrote: >>> Alan Braggins wrote: >>>> In article <5sr39mF1ah14lU6(a)mid.individual.net>, Conor wrote: >>>>> Just a note..cabs a feckin high now with the bottom of windscreens >>>>> over 6ft off the floor so try and be a few feet in front of the >>>>> lorry if you're directly in front of it. >>>> If you're stopped at a red light and a lorry pulls up right behind >>>> you, that means going a few feet through the red light. Sometimes >>>> that's safe and advisable, but sometimes it would mean pulling into >>>> the middle of a pedestrian crossing which is being used. >>> If you are approaching a cyclist stopped in the middle of your lane >>> waiting a red light (I know this is extremly rare) then when stopping >>> behid him you should stop where you keep him in sight, it's not up to >>> him to move. >> Exactly. Just telling cyclists to keep clear of lorries isn't the >> whole answer, the drivers have to pay attention too. (Which almost >> all of them do, almost all of the time.) > > Which we have all said throuought this thread - but even a human with the > best intentions will make mistakes from time to time. For this reasons, > cyclists should think self preservation before rights, blame or revenge. That is precisely what they are doing here. Experience tell us that the moment motorists decide that other people have a responsibility to avoid potentially dangerous situations with their vehicles they start to believe it is no longer their responsibility to avoid a collision. This is what the argument is all really about. Motorists want everyone other road user to behave in a much more ordered and predictable way so that the can drive faster and take less care. |