The fragility of car computers revealed.
in [UK Drivers]
|
From: ChelseaTractorMan on 27 May 2010 04:15 On Thu, 27 May 2010 00:41:21 -0700 (PDT), "Man at B&Q" <manatbandq(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >Malicious and determined attacks are a very >different kettle of fish. so do not connect you car to the internet -- Mike. .. . Gone beyond the ultimate driving machine.
From: Tony Dragon on 27 May 2010 04:50 Doug wrote: > On 26 May, 10:17, "GT" <a...(a)b.c> wrote: >> "Doug" <jag...(a)riseup.net> wrote in message >> >> news:573aeb9e-8eb6-45b2-964e-7b8d6b12d31a(a)o39g2000vbd.googlegroups.com... >> >> >> >>> On 23 May, 09:49, "GT" <a...(a)b.c> wrote: >>>> "Doug" <jag...(a)riseup.net> wrote in message >>>> news:8add536f-2520-4b07-8034-97f341e2f969(a)z33g2000vbb.googlegroups.com... >>>>> On 21 May, 09:59, boltar2...(a)boltar.world wrote: >>>>>> On Fri, 21 May 2010 09:54:07 +0100 >>>>>> Conor <co...(a)gmx.co.uk> wrote: >>>>>>>>> "The computer systems used to control modern cars are very >>>>>>>>> vulnerable >>>>>>>>> to attack, say experts. >>>>>>> And just how do they get access to it, Doug? >>>>>> Doug seems to forget that his bicycle is vulnerable to a large stick >>>>>> in >>>>>> the wheel spokes. Beware of those nasty trees doug! >>>>> Unlike the defective car driver though the cyclist would be unlikely >>>>> to inure anyone but himself. >>>> Most car accidents don't injure anyone - they are just minor bumps. >>>> Unlike >>>> most bicycle accidents where people tend to injure hands and knees. >>> They are not euphemistic 'accidents' they are 'crashes'. Car crashes >>> are far more dangerous than bicycle crashes and kill very many mmore >>> people. >> No, they are accidents. >> > You are asserting that they are NOT crashes? Explain. Very simple, crashes can be accidental. >> To say otherwise implies that the driver or rider >> deliberately crashed. >> > Wrong. It implies that the driver either lost control On purpose? Dou you remember this thread http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk.politics.misc/msg/54cd3a81a5db3065 > or that their > vehicle was in some way faulty. >> You are heading down the road of slander and will be >> prosecuted if you start quoting particular cases and accusing drivers or >> riders of deliberately crashing a vehicle. >> > See above. >> Most car *accidents* don't injure >> anyone - they are just minor bumps. Unlike most bicycle accidents where >> people tend to injure hands and knees. >> > As I said, the word 'accidents' is a euphemism used to minimise the > accountability of those in sole charge of dangerous machines in public > places who kill or injure someone else with those machines. If you > check, several major sources now tend to avoid the use of the word > 'accident' in connection with road crashes. & several don't > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_collision > > "...As the factors involved in collisions have become better > understood, some organizations have begun to avoid the term > "accident," as the word suggests an unpreventable, unpredictable event > and disregards the opportunity for the driver(s) involved to avoid the > crash. Although auto collisions are rare in terms of the number of > vehicles on the road and the distance they travel, addressing the > contributing factors can reduce their likelihood. For example, proper > signage can decrease driver error and thereby reduce crash frequency > by a third or more.[4] That is why these organizations prefer the > term "collision" rather than "accident"... > > -- > UK Radical Campaigns. > http://www.zing.icom43.net > A driving licence is a licence to kill. > > -- Tony Dragon
From: Tony Dragon on 27 May 2010 04:59 ChelseaTractorMan wrote: > On Thu, 27 May 2010 00:41:21 -0700 (PDT), "Man at B&Q" > <manatbandq(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > >> Malicious and determined attacks are a very >> different kettle of fish. > > so do not connect you car to the internet Over the weekend I am installing a lockable cover over the cars admin port & I will be fitting a Faraday cage around the computer. I have also reported to the police, that I have noticed a man in the station car park with one of these http://www.b2btrade.biz/images2/img4b3c1556ecde2.jpg -- Tony Dragon
From: GT on 27 May 2010 05:12 "Doug" <jagmad(a)riseup.net> wrote in message news:8f6cd527-7da5-4632-b455-7842ab0d0f67(a)w3g2000vbd.googlegroups.com... > On 26 May, 10:17, "GT" <a...(a)b.c> wrote: >> "Doug" <jag...(a)riseup.net> wrote in message >> >> news:573aeb9e-8eb6-45b2-964e-7b8d6b12d31a(a)o39g2000vbd.googlegroups.com... >> >> > On 23 May, 09:49, "GT" <a...(a)b.c> wrote: >> >> "Doug" <jag...(a)riseup.net> wrote in message >> >> >>news:8add536f-2520-4b07-8034-97f341e2f969(a)z33g2000vbb.googlegroups.com... >> >> >> > On 21 May, 09:59, boltar2...(a)boltar.world wrote: >> >> >> On Fri, 21 May 2010 09:54:07 +0100 >> >> >> >> Conor <co...(a)gmx.co.uk> wrote: >> >> >> >>> "The computer systems used to control modern cars are very >> >> >> >>> vulnerable >> >> >> >>> to attack, say experts. >> >> >> >> >And just how do they get access to it, Doug? >> >> >> >> Doug seems to forget that his bicycle is vulnerable to a large >> >> >> stick >> >> >> in >> >> >> the wheel spokes. Beware of those nasty trees doug! >> >> >> > Unlike the defective car driver though the cyclist would be unlikely >> >> > to inure anyone but himself. >> >> >> Most car accidents don't injure anyone - they are just minor bumps. >> >> Unlike >> >> most bicycle accidents where people tend to injure hands and knees. >> >> > They are not euphemistic 'accidents' they are 'crashes'. Car crashes >> > are far more dangerous than bicycle crashes and kill very many mmore >> > people. >> >> No, they are accidents. >> > You are asserting that they are NOT crashes? Explain. >> >> To say otherwise implies that the driver or rider >> deliberately crashed. >> > Wrong. It implies that the driver either lost control or that their > vehicle was in some way faulty. >> >> You are heading down the road of slander and will be >> prosecuted if you start quoting particular cases and accusing drivers or >> riders of deliberately crashing a vehicle. >> > See above. >> >> Most car *accidents* don't injure >> anyone - they are just minor bumps. Unlike most bicycle accidents where >> people tend to injure hands and knees. >> > As I said, the word 'accidents' is a euphemism No, the word accident is not a euphemism. A euphemism is the substitution of one word for another. However, using the word crash or collision *is* a problem as it does not tell the whole truth. Oxford English Dictionary: Accident: an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss Collision: the act of colliding; a coming violently into contact The word accident implies an accidental incident - no one is to blame - a mistake or unforeseen event. Using the word accident in this context is not a substitution for another word as you say, but is the correct word to describe the unintentional incident or event. The word collision or crash simply describes an event and is incomplete as a description of the collision between two vehicles. If you insist on using the word crash or collision, then you are going to have to insert the word 'accidental' before them! To use 'crash' or 'collision' without implying intent is to deliberately avoid acknowledging blame or lack of blame and therefore implies that someone is to blame or has deliberately caused the crash. Most car 'impacts' are accidents - very few of them are deliberate collisions.
From: ChelseaTractorMan on 27 May 2010 07:21
On Thu, 27 May 2010 10:12:51 +0100, "GT" <a(a)b.c> wrote: >The word accident implies an accidental incident - no one is to blame - a >mistake or unforeseen event. No, blame is apportioned for accidents, just look at an accident claim form "who in your opinion was to blame?". "Accident" tells us it was *unintentional*. You are still held responsible for unintentional errors like killing a pedestrian. Especially where the error involved recklessness, say driving at 60 on a 30. If you were acting within the law and being observant when the accident happened it will less likely you are penalised. Manslaughter is killing somebody Murder is premeditated manslaughter -- Mike. .. . Gone beyond the ultimate driving machine. |