This drivers strike ?
in [UK Drivers]
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From: Mike G on 22 Jun 2008 23:59 "Clive George" <clive(a)xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message news:xsidnfS-S8kDa8PVnZ2dnUVZ8svinZ2d(a)posted.plusnet... > "Mike G" <metier(a)largefoot.com> wrote in message > news:lsSdnbDO_dE3bMPVnZ2dnUVZ8sTinZ2d(a)posted.plusnet... > >> I think the point Vince is making, and I'm certainly making, >> is that most office work can be done after maybe a brief >> familiarisation period of a few hours. >> Nothing like the training required for most skilled manual >> workers, and IME most skilled manual workers are perfectly >> capable of doing paperwork. They just prefer manual work. > > Hmm. We're talking low-end clerical stuff here aren't we. > There's rather a lot more that goes on in offices beyond > that... > > (for an equivalent to your skilled manual worker, try getting a > decent CAD technician - they work in offices, but I'd hope you > don't believe they just take a few hours familiarisation.). I agree, but such skilled office workers are the exception rather than the rule. Most office work 'is' low-end clerical stuff, requiring no particular, or difficult to learn skills. Mike.
From: Clive George on 23 Jun 2008 08:35 "Mike G" <metier(a)largefoot.com> wrote in message news:PqqdndL2YukpgsLVnZ2dnUVZ8vudnZ2d(a)posted.plusnet... > > "Clive George" <clive(a)xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message > news:xsidnfS-S8kDa8PVnZ2dnUVZ8svinZ2d(a)posted.plusnet... >> "Mike G" <metier(a)largefoot.com> wrote in message >> news:lsSdnbDO_dE3bMPVnZ2dnUVZ8sTinZ2d(a)posted.plusnet... >> >>> I think the point Vince is making, and I'm certainly making, is that >>> most office work can be done after maybe a brief familiarisation period >>> of a few hours. >>> Nothing like the training required for most skilled manual workers, and >>> IME most skilled manual workers are perfectly capable of doing >>> paperwork. They just prefer manual work. >> >> Hmm. We're talking low-end clerical stuff here aren't we. There's rather >> a lot more that goes on in offices beyond that... >> >> (for an equivalent to your skilled manual worker, try getting a decent >> CAD technician - they work in offices, but I'd hope you don't believe >> they just take a few hours familiarisation.). > > I agree, but such skilled office workers are the exception rather than the > rule. Most office work 'is' low-end clerical stuff, requiring no > particular, or difficult to learn skills. Um, you might want to take a look at some different offices. Maybe a small manufacturing company with no design facility doesn't do much of note in their offices, but do you really think those of IBM, HSBC, JP Morgan, KPMG, Foster + Partners, Ove Arup, Slaughter and May, etc are full of low-end clerical workers? clive
From: Brimstone on 23 Jun 2008 10:08 Clive George wrote: > "Mike G" <metier(a)largefoot.com> wrote in message > news:PqqdndL2YukpgsLVnZ2dnUVZ8vudnZ2d(a)posted.plusnet... >> >> "Clive George" <clive(a)xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message >> news:xsidnfS-S8kDa8PVnZ2dnUVZ8svinZ2d(a)posted.plusnet... >>> "Mike G" <metier(a)largefoot.com> wrote in message >>> news:lsSdnbDO_dE3bMPVnZ2dnUVZ8sTinZ2d(a)posted.plusnet... >>> >>>> I think the point Vince is making, and I'm certainly making, is >>>> that most office work can be done after maybe a brief >>>> familiarisation period of a few hours. >>>> Nothing like the training required for most skilled manual >>>> workers, and IME most skilled manual workers are perfectly capable >>>> of doing paperwork. They just prefer manual work. >>> >>> Hmm. We're talking low-end clerical stuff here aren't we. There's >>> rather a lot more that goes on in offices beyond that... >>> >>> (for an equivalent to your skilled manual worker, try getting a >>> decent CAD technician - they work in offices, but I'd hope you >>> don't believe they just take a few hours familiarisation.). >> >> I agree, but such skilled office workers are the exception rather >> than the rule. Most office work 'is' low-end clerical stuff, >> requiring no particular, or difficult to learn skills. > > Um, you might want to take a look at some different offices. Maybe a > small manufacturing company with no design facility doesn't do much > of note in their offices, but do you really think those of IBM, HSBC, > JP Morgan, KPMG, Foster + Partners, Ove Arup, Slaughter and May, etc > are full of low-end clerical workers? > Unfortunately many people lump together anyone who works in an office as an "office worker" without differentiating between administrators and bureaucrats on the one hand and productive staff (i.e. designers, engineers etc) on the other. Most administration is basic low skilled work but which needs to be done properly so that the productive people can devote their efforts to doing their job. Oh, and sign the pay checks (or whatever).
From: Raymond Keattch on 23 Jun 2008 12:06 On 23/06/2008 01:43:23, "Mike G" wrote: > > "Raymond Keattch" <ray.keattch(a)nowhere.com> wrote in message > news:YYy7k.23016$aE7.11462(a)newsfe16.ams2... >> On 22/06/2008 19:34:36, "Mike G" wrote: >>>>>> Many skilled workers could do office jobs if they had to or >>>>>> wanted to, but >>>>>> the reverse is certainly not true. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Spot on Mike. >>>> >>>> Eh, no it isn't. >>> >>> Care to explain that comment. >>> Most office work doesn't require any particular skills other >>> than >>> intelligence and common sense. >>> I'm a skilled practical precision engineer. I had no problem >>> on >>> the clerical side when I was a works manager for 6 years, or >>> when >>> running my own engineering business. >>> The majority of office work is repetitious and easily learned, >>> which is more than can be said for most skilled manual work. >>> Mike. >> >> I took the comment to mean with training. > > I think the point Vince is making, and I'm certainly making, is > that most office work can be done after maybe a brief > familiarisation period of a few hours. > Nothing like the training required for most skilled manual > workers, and IME most skilled manual workers are perfectly > capable of doing paperwork. They just prefer manual work. > Mike. So on the one side you include skilled manual wokers, yet on the other side you appear to only include very basic paperwork. Compare like with like - IT, accounts, fleet managers etc - they all work in an office. -- MrBitsy Rover 75 CDTi
From: Raymond Keattch on 23 Jun 2008 12:07
On 23/06/2008 04:59:48, "Mike G" wrote: > > "Clive George" <clive(a)xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message > news:xsidnfS-S8kDa8PVnZ2dnUVZ8svinZ2d(a)posted.plusnet... >> "Mike G" <metier(a)largefoot.com> wrote in message >> news:lsSdnbDO_dE3bMPVnZ2dnUVZ8sTinZ2d(a)posted.plusnet... >> >>> I think the point Vince is making, and I'm certainly making, >>> is that most office work can be done after maybe a brief >>> familiarisation period of a few hours. >>> Nothing like the training required for most skilled manual >>> workers, and IME most skilled manual workers are perfectly >>> capable of doing paperwork. They just prefer manual work. >> >> Hmm. We're talking low-end clerical stuff here aren't we. >> There's rather a lot more that goes on in offices beyond >> that... >> >> (for an equivalent to your skilled manual worker, try getting a >> decent CAD technician - they work in offices, but I'd hope you >> don't believe they just take a few hours familiarisation.). > > I agree, but such skilled office workers are the exception rather > than the rule. Most office work 'is' low-end clerical stuff, > requiring no particular, or difficult to learn skills. > Mike. By that criteria, most manual work is also unskilled. -- MrBitsy Rover 75 CDTi |