Toyota struggles to stop runaway crisis
in [Technical]
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From: John Kester on 7 Feb 2010 17:27 On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:16:40 -0700, Ashton Crusher <demi(a)moore.net> wrote: >On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:33:32 -0500, John Kester <jkmoxty012(a)gmail.com> >wrote: > >> >>Ford murdered a bunch of its customers by not recalling exploding Ford >>Pintos even though they knew about them, because on the accounting >>books it looked cheaper to absorb the cost of the burn lawsuits than >>to do a recall. Nice. > > >That is completely false. The only "accounting" was in response to a >request by the gvt and using gvt supplied dollar figures. The pintos >were no more prone to exploding then any other car of the day. If >Ford is guilty murdering their customers then so are ALL the other car >markers of the time. You are tragically misinformed. There is a reason that this particular case is discussed in every Business Ethics college textbook written in the last 30 years. Ford was aware that rear-impact collisions could ignite the gas tank, and there are written and recorded meetings where they determined a re-design was too expensive, and there are documents showing quantitative analysis of cost of lawsuits versus redesign. Know what you're talking about before you dispute such well documented facts, at least do a little research before spouting off and making a fool of yourself. Whether or not Ford has done something quite so evil since, I doubt it.. the publicity around that one was quite high.
From: Ashton Crusher on 7 Feb 2010 17:36 On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 17:27:30 -0500, John Kester <jkmoxty012(a)gmail.com> wrote: >On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:16:40 -0700, Ashton Crusher <demi(a)moore.net> >wrote: > >>On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:33:32 -0500, John Kester <jkmoxty012(a)gmail.com> >>wrote: >> >>> >>>Ford murdered a bunch of its customers by not recalling exploding Ford >>>Pintos even though they knew about them, because on the accounting >>>books it looked cheaper to absorb the cost of the burn lawsuits than >>>to do a recall. Nice. >> >> >>That is completely false. The only "accounting" was in response to a >>request by the gvt and using gvt supplied dollar figures. The pintos >>were no more prone to exploding then any other car of the day. If >>Ford is guilty murdering their customers then so are ALL the other car >>markers of the time. > >You are tragically misinformed. There is a reason that this >particular case is discussed in every Business Ethics college textbook >written in the last 30 years. Ford was aware that rear-impact >collisions could ignite the gas tank, and there are written and >recorded meetings where they determined a re-design was too expensive, >and there are documents showing quantitative analysis of cost of >lawsuits versus redesign. Know what you're talking about before you >dispute such well documented facts, at least do a little research >before spouting off and making a fool of yourself. > >Whether or not Ford has done something quite so evil since, I doubt >it.. the publicity around that one was quite high. there was nothing inherently dangerous about the pinto. It was statistically just as safe as any other average car on the road. ANY car can be made safer, that's a meaningless yardstick to apply. You can CHOOSE to believe whatever you want.
From: Ashton Crusher on 7 Feb 2010 17:36 On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 17:00:00 -0500, Hachiroku ???? <Trueno(a)e86.GTS> wrote: >On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 12:55:59 -0500, Mike Hunter wrote: > >> If you did, than I could not drift away, even if you did not properly >> engage the shifter into the PARK position, as was the actual cause. > > >YABUT! > >How could you even forget about the Ford recall for transmissions? >They talked it to death almost as much as the currect Toyota recall. > >However, 'talked to death' is not a good phrase to use. Hundreds were >killed and thousands injured thanks to Ford NOT fixing the transmissions, >but issuing a sticker for the dash instead. > >You want to make such a big deal about the Toyota recall. So far, I don't >think anyone has died yet from the sticking pedal, and Toyota is fixing >the problem. 2500 accidents, 12 deaths, or something like that.
From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 7 Feb 2010 18:26 On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 15:36:56 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote: > On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 17:00:00 -0500, Hachiroku ???? <Trueno(a)e86.GTS> wrote: > >>On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 12:55:59 -0500, Mike Hunter wrote: >> >>> If you did, than I could not drift away, even if you did not properly >>> engage the shifter into the PARK position, as was the actual cause. >> >> >>YABUT! >> >>How could you even forget about the Ford recall for transmissions? They >>talked it to death almost as much as the currect Toyota recall. >> >>However, 'talked to death' is not a good phrase to use. Hundreds were >>killed and thousands injured thanks to Ford NOT fixing the transmissions, >>but issuing a sticker for the dash instead. >> >>You want to make such a big deal about the Toyota recall. So far, I don't >>think anyone has died yet from the sticking pedal, and Toyota is fixing >>the problem. > > > 2500 accidents, 12 deaths, or something like that. Kinda pales compared with over 300 deaths and thousands of injuries for a transmission Ford didn't want to (and DIDN'T) fix...
From: jim on 7 Feb 2010 19:35
Ashton Crusher wrote: > > there was nothing inherently dangerous about the pinto. It was > statistically just as safe as any other average car on the road. No that is not at all true. It was according to NHTSA no more dangerous than other cars in the same class. It was (also according to NHTSA) considerably more dangerous than the average car on the road. It has been estimated that 500 people were burned to death that would not have died if they had been in an an average car when the accident occurred. The average car on the road at that time was a tank and the occupants rarely suffered any injuries at all when another car plowed into the rear at 35 miles an hour. The problem was that Detroit designed and built compact cars not with the goal of creating an enduring market for compact cars, but with an eye to destroying the market for small cars. As a result of this philosophy there was about a 20 year period where the compact cars Detroit built were just one disaster after another. -jim > ANY > car can be made safer, that's a meaningless yardstick to apply. You > can CHOOSE to believe whatever you want. |