Transporting 20 gallons of gas in your trunk and storing in your back yard in the open air question
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From: Steve B on 22 Jul 2010 12:45 "Steve B" <pittmanpirate(a)hotmail.com> wrote >> 1926.152(a)(1): Approved safety cans or Department of Transportation >> approved containers shall be used for the handling and use of flammable >> liquids in quantities of 5 gallons or less ... > > But you said containers of less than five gallons re: storage. What about > transport? You say nothing about that. NO, sorry. You cited about 5 gallon containers for handling. Nothing stated there about storage. Steve
From: LM on 22 Jul 2010 15:43 On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:23:24 -0700, Steve B wrote: >> Autoignition Temperature: 833 degrees F / 444 degrees C >> >> Gulf unleaded gasoline material data sheet (MDS) >> http://www.gulfoil.com/files/downloads/unleadedgasoline.PDF > > And your point is? That there is no ignition source ...? The point was to find whether gasoline, stored next to a fence, in approved 5-gallon containers, would ignite. With an ignition temperature over 800 degrees F (MythBusters seems to think it's only 500 degrees F so I'm not sure why the descrepancy), it's not likely the gasoline will ever get hot enough, without a flame, to spontaneously erupt simply stored against the fence. Stored in a vehicle truck bed or closed trunk (or in the vehicle gas tank for that matter), is a whole 'nother story because there could be leakage and sparks and friction after a crash. But, a crash is a crash and is a dangerous thing no matter what. If we're so worried about crashes, we'd never drive anywhere so we have to take that risk in hand. Assume someone drives 15K miles a year, for 50 years, that's 750K miles in a lifetime. Assume in that lifetime, they have, how many? Maybe two, maybe three accidents? Let's say five accidents just to be aggressive. That's an accident every 150K miles. But you don't store the gas in the trunk all the time; just to and from the gas station, which, for our sake, we'll call 15 miles round trip. I'm not sure how to do statistics, but, 15 miles out of 150,000 miles seems like a percentage of about 0.01%. So, for any given fifteen miles that you're carrying gasoline in your trunk, you have a non-zero (but pretty small) chance of having an accident; and in that accident, you have a smaller (but still non-zero) chance of having it blow up on you. All in all, unless someone comes up with better math, I think you have a better chance of having a heart attack than having your gas blow up on you on that one trip to the gas station. Still, I can't find what the laws are for California for transportation. The Caltrans (DOT) site was miserable.
From: LM on 22 Jul 2010 15:49 On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:27:08 -0700, Steve B wrote: > But you said containers of less than five gallons re: storage. > What about transport? You say nothing about that. I'm trying. I'm trying. :) My husband fills my car with gas all the time from Costo runs he makes with his car. He fills up his sedan plus four five-gallon cans at the Costco pump. The advantage is he waits on line once but gets to fill up two cars. The advantage to me is I never ever have to fill my gas. So I'm also interested in the law. The Costco gas attendant can't possibly not be seeing him do this for years. They never say anything. Neither has anyone else. You'd think a cop or two would have been on line waiting at some point or another. Or the trucker who fills up the huge gas tanks would mention something. Looking for the law, I scoured the Caltrans (fancy name for the California DOT) web site for hours. I can't find a single document that says what the law is for transport of gasoline in portable storage containers for personal use. I'll keep looking. It frustates me that something so simple is so hard to find the law for.
From: LM on 22 Jul 2010 15:57 On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:45:00 -0700, Steve B wrote: > You cited about 5 gallon containers for handling. > Nothing stated there about storage. I'm trying. I really am. I want to know myself what the law is. I gave up on the California DOT (aka Caltrans) web site as its search mechanism is a mess. I googled for "California law gasoline portable storage container transportation and storage" It's really hard to find the law on storage and transportation of 5-gallon gasoline containers! :( This PDF, for example, titled "Portable Storage Containers" (http://groups.ucanr.org/ehs/files/54035.pdf ) is typical in that it gives suggestions, but, only one law is mentioned related to storage, and it isn't what we're looking for (we're looking for a volume limitation). It says "A safety can made of a heavy-gauge metal and having a cap that automatically closes to prevent a spill if the can is dropped or tipped over is required, under California Code of Regulations Title 8, Section 3319, for storing flammable liquids like gasoline." So, I'm still looking for any California law that covers: - How many gallons (if any limit exists) you can carry in your trunk - How many gallons (if any limit exists) you can store 'along a fence' We all know you can carry gas in your trunk; and you can leave it along your fence; the only question is whether or not there is a legal volume limit.
From: Steve B on 22 Jul 2010 16:04
> The point was to find whether gasoline, stored next to a fence, in > approved > 5-gallon containers, would ignite. The point is, gasoline could sit out there safely for a very long time. In the sun. And not ignite from ambient heat. And never even get close. There's no arguing that point. Then humans enter the equation, and, well, you know humans. And then, there is lightning. And in California, fires of different types. And, in California, people who smoke all sorts of things that burn. All in all, if I were the OP, I wouldn't have a problem with it, unless it's by the house or garage or outbuilding, and then the OP is being careless and might get caught with his pants down one day. From the neighbor's POV, I can see why he might be a little concerned. I don't know if we ever established if the gas and fence location was near any house or structure, or out in the middle of acres of desert. I wouldn't want to see twenty gallons of gas on the other side of my fence if it was between the two houses. You probably wouldn't want to, either. There are lots and lots of variables here. But the one constant is that gas is very flammable, and extremely easy to ignite by several normal every day methods, including static electricity from a poofy sweater. AND, when it catches fire, it's usually nasty and leaves a big mess. And melts plastic sweaters on to people in a heartbeat. Steve visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com |