What percentage of 20 year old cars are on the road?
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From: C. E. White on 28 Oct 2009 11:46 "SMS" <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote in message news:4ae84eb5$0$1639$742ec2ed(a)news.sonic.net... > C. E. White wrote: >> A Toyota commercial they are running in my area claims that 80% of >> all Toyota sold in the last 20 years are still on the road. This >> seemed to be a very low number to me. What do other think? > > There was a study in Canada about this. > > For vehicles 11-20 years old, a 2006 Canadian study showed the > following order for highest percentage of cars still on the road in > Canada adjusted for how many were originally sold): > > 1. Lexus > 2. Mercedes > 3. Saturn > 4. Infiniti > 5. Acura > 6. BMW > 7. Volvo > 8. Cadillac > 9. Jaguar > 10. Lincoln > 11. Toyota > 12. Honda > 13. Mazda > 14. Saab > 15. Buick > 16. Volkswagen > 17. Chrysler > 18. Nissan > ---Industry Average--- > 19. Oldsmobile > 20. Subaru > 21. Chevrolet > 22. Ford > 23. Pontiac > 24. Audi > 25. Mercury > 26. Eagle > 27. Dodge > 28. Suzuki > 29. Plymouth > 30. Isuzu > 31. Hyundai > 32. Lada > > They warn that this data needs to interpreted correctly. Owners of > older expensive luxury cars are more likely to repair their vehicle > than junk it. Vehicles sold in large numbers into rental fleets rack > up a lot of miles and have shorter life in years, but not > necessarily in miles. Some vehicles in the list didn't exist 20 > years prior to the study so there were no vehicles 16-20 years old, > only vehicles 11-15 years old (this explains the anomaly of Saturn). > > Bottom line is that for vehicle brands in existence for the full > 11-20 year time span, Toyota had the highest percentage of vehicles > still on the road for non-luxury brands. This seems to discount the factor I am talking about - Toyota sales (both in the US and Canada) have greatly increased over the last twenty years. The average age for a set that includes all Toyotas sold for any period of more than one year in the last twenty years will be lower than for a company like GM that has had stagnent or a declining market share over that period. Both have been selling cars for more than 20 years in the market, but the average age of Toyotas sold during the twenty year period is not as old as the average age for GM cars sold during the same period. It seems to me that this must be an improtant factor. Unless you factor this out, then all you are doing to confusing people...if you are Toyota, it is a good confusion, if you are GM it is a bad thing. > What's also interesting is that vehicles like Volkswagen, which > routinely ranks far below average in reliability, did relatively > well. > > "http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/2006/060905-1.htm" ..I look at cars like applainces. When they no longer meet my needs, I dump them and get something else. In my opionion, VW owners (at least some VW owners, and particularly old Bug owners) look at the cars as an end in themselves. I think they take some sort of pride in proving that they can keep a VW running despite the odds against them. When I was younger, I felt like that about British Cars. I am smarter now... Ed
From: SMS on 28 Oct 2009 12:58 C. E. White wrote: > This seems to discount the factor I am talking about - Toyota sales > (both in the US and Canada) have greatly increased over the last > twenty years. These rankings are based on the number of vehicles originally sold, they are not raw numbers. Not sure what you're trying to say here. The problem I see is that those rankings don't list the actual percentages. They could be closely grouped together. No one argues that Toyotas and Hondas have greater longevity and reliability than Fords or Chevys, the debate is over how much greater longevity and how much greater reliability.
From: N8N on 28 Oct 2009 14:05 On Oct 28, 10:48 am, klu...(a)panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote: > SMS <scharf.ste...(a)geemail.com> wrote: > > > 1. Lexus > > 2. Mercedes > > 3. Saturn > > 4. Infiniti > > 5. Acura > > 6. BMW > > 7. Volvo > > 8. Cadillac > > 9. Jaguar > >10. Lincoln > >11. Toyota > >12. Honda > >13. Mazda > >14. Saab > >15. Buick > >16. Volkswagen > >17. Chrysler > >18. Nissan > >---Industry Average--- > >19. Oldsmobile > >20. Subaru > >21. Chevrolet > >22. Ford > >23. Pontiac > >24. Audi > >25. Mercury > >26. Eagle > >27. Dodge > >28. Suzuki > >29. Plymouth > >30. Isuzu > >31. Hyundai > >32. Lada > > >They warn that this data needs to interpreted correctly. Owners of older > >expensive luxury cars are more likely to repair their vehicle than junk > >it. Vehicles sold in large numbers into rental fleets rack up a lot of > >miles and have shorter life in years, but not necessarily in miles. Some > >vehicles in the list didn't exist 20 years prior to the study so there > >were no vehicles 16-20 years old, only vehicles 11-15 years old (this > >explains the anomaly of Saturn). > > I would just like to point out that Fiat is not even ON this list, that > it is farther down in the order than Lada. There is some justice in this > world. > --scott If it's a US-centric list, that makes sense, since neither was sold here. nate
From: N8N on 28 Oct 2009 14:08 On Oct 28, 11:46 am, "C. E. White" <cewhi...(a)removemindspring.com> wrote: > "SMS" <scharf.ste...(a)geemail.com> wrote in message > > news:4ae84eb5$0$1639$742ec2ed(a)news.sonic.net... > > > > > > > C. E. White wrote: > >> A Toyota commercial they are running in my area claims that 80% of > >> all Toyota sold in the last 20 years are still on the road. This > >> seemed to be a very low number to me. What do other think? > > > There was a study in Canada about this. > > > For vehicles 11-20 years old, a 2006 Canadian study showed the > > following order for highest percentage of cars still on the road in > > Canada adjusted for how many were originally sold): > > > 1. Lexus > > 2. Mercedes > > 3. Saturn > > 4. Infiniti > > 5. Acura > > 6. BMW > > 7. Volvo > > 8. Cadillac > > 9. Jaguar > > 10. Lincoln > > 11. Toyota > > 12. Honda > > 13. Mazda > > 14. Saab > > 15. Buick > > 16. Volkswagen > > 17. Chrysler > > 18. Nissan > > ---Industry Average--- > > 19. Oldsmobile > > 20. Subaru > > 21. Chevrolet > > 22. Ford > > 23. Pontiac > > 24. Audi > > 25. Mercury > > 26. Eagle > > 27. Dodge > > 28. Suzuki > > 29. Plymouth > > 30. Isuzu > > 31. Hyundai > > 32. Lada > > > They warn that this data needs to interpreted correctly. Owners of > > older expensive luxury cars are more likely to repair their vehicle > > than junk it. Vehicles sold in large numbers into rental fleets rack > > up a lot of miles and have shorter life in years, but not > > necessarily in miles. Some vehicles in the list didn't exist 20 > > years prior to the study so there were no vehicles 16-20 years old, > > only vehicles 11-15 years old (this explains the anomaly of Saturn). > > > Bottom line is that for vehicle brands in existence for the full > > 11-20 year time span, Toyota had the highest percentage of vehicles > > still on the road for non-luxury brands. > > This seems to discount the factor I am talking about - Toyota sales > (both in the US and Canada) have greatly increased over the last > twenty years. The average age for a set that includes all Toyotas sold > for any period of more than one year in the last twenty years will be > lower than for a company like GM that has had stagnent or a declining > market share over that period. Both have been selling cars for more > than 20 years in the market, but the average age of Toyotas sold > during the twenty year period is not as old as the average age for GM > cars sold during the same period. It seems to me that this must be an > improtant factor. Unless you factor this out, then all you are doing > to confusing people...if you are Toyota, it is a good confusion, if > you are GM it is a bad thing. > > > What's also interesting is that vehicles like Volkswagen, which > > routinely ranks far below average in reliability, did relatively > > well. > > > "http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/2006/060905-1.htm" > > .I look at cars like applainces. When they no longer meet my needs, I > dump them and get something else. In my opionion, VW owners (at least > some VW owners, and particularly old Bug owners) look at the cars as > an end in themselves. I think they take some sort of pride in proving > that they can keep a VW running despite the odds against them. When I > was younger, I felt like that about British Cars. I am smarter now... > > Ed VW's may have occasional niggling issues that other cars don't, but they last. And last. And last. Until the body rusts apart, which actually takes quite a long time, an A1 or A2 chassis VW will hardly ever have something break that is major enough to make you consider getting rid of it. They're also quite pleasant to drive, feel much more solid and yet sporty than other similar products from other mfgrs. Yes, I love my old VWs and I wish I could have kept them all. Especially my '84 Scirocco, I don't know what the hell I was thinking when I sold that car. I'd probably still be driving it today. nate
From: Scott Dorsey on 28 Oct 2009 14:09
N8N <njnagel(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > >If it's a US-centric list, that makes sense, since neither was sold >here. It's a Canadian list. That's why it doesn't have Yugo on it. However, Peugeot, Renault, and Fiat all sold cars in the US for a while. You don't see a lot of them on the road today for reasons that will be immediately apparent if you ever drive one. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |