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From: JNugent on 20 May 2010 12:59
mileburner wrote:

[ ... ]

> Those educated will often look at their travel choices and make to most
> sensible option.

Do you also post as "Toomy"?
From: JNugent on 20 May 2010 13:00
Dave Plowman wrote:
> In article <TcmdnTLc2MubYmnWnZ2dnUVZ8sGdnZ2d(a)pipex.net>,
> JNugent <JN(a)noparticularplacetogo.com> wrote:
>> Many bicycles these days are actually very expensive fashion
>>> accessories for rich yuppies. The middle and lower classes now drive
>>> around in cars, because this is the most practical way of getting
>>> around and doing your shopping, now little local corner shops have
>>> mostly been closed down in favour of our-of-town supermarkets...
>
>> ...though only because they are an improvement on the corner shop
>> (something a true believer absolutely *will not* hear).
>
> I have a decent size Waitrose and Sainsbury within walking distance - both
> on the high street. There's no real reason they have to be 'out of town'.

Yes, there is.

They are more convenient, in more ways, to more people, on the edge of town
than they are in the centre or in the inner suburbs.

That's why they do it.
From: JNugent on 20 May 2010 13:05
ChelseaTractorMan wrote:

> Dave Plowman <dave(a)davesound.co.uk> wrote:

[in response to:]
>>> ...though only because they are an improvement on the corner shop
>>> (something a true believer absolutely *will not* hear).

>> I have a decent size Waitrose and Sainsbury within walking distance - both
>> on the high street. There's no real reason they have to be 'out of town'.

> not out of town, but not in walking distance. Think about how many
> customers each needs to be profitable and its obvious they have to be
> a fair way apart. This means the typical way to use them is to drive
> and buy a bootload of stuff in one go. Our walkable local high street
> has neither and is set to have less and less due to the creation of
> Bluewater shopping mall, which is "out of town".

Bluewater, rather like its older "twin", Lakeside, doesn't actually sell
groceries.

For that reason both Lakeside and Bluewater are analagous to an old-fashioned
city centre (catering for what geographers call "high-order shopping"),
rather than to inner-suburban high streets ("low-order shopping" - especially
groceries etc).

The regional shopping centre (what the Americans call a "mall") is a
different beast from an EOT supermarket.

Both of them are an absolute boon to the average family, of course. And a
thorn in the sides of those "true believers" who think they know how others
should live their lives.
From: JNugent on 20 May 2010 13:07
mileburner wrote:
> "Brimstone" <brimstone(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:FIidndvKiqce1WjWnZ2dnUVZ7q-dnZ2d(a)bt.com...
>>
>> "Nkosi (ama-ecosse)" <minankosi(a)googlemail.com> wrote in message
>> news:b2532fa4-a1a9-4244-9337-3d91c87dfee4(a)d12g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
>>> On 20 May, 13:02, "mileburner" <milebur...(a)btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>> Derek C wrote:
>>>>> On 20 May, 07:00, Guy Cuthbertson <gu...(a)nothing.invalid> wrote:
>>> snip not pertinent to the reply
>>>
>>>> Those educated will often look at their travel choices and make to most
>>>> sensible option. Those who think that their only option is to drive are
>>>> often from the lower end of the socio-economic scale.
>>> That is an answer from a real fuckwit since the majority of the cars I
>>> see on the road seem to cost in excess of 20 000 to buy never mind
>>> run.
>>>
>> I think by using "lower end of the socio-economic scale", "mileburner" was
>> trying to be kind. I suspect he really meant "unthinking" which is another
>> way of saying "thick".
>
> You often see lots of expensive cars on council estates...
>
> But it does seem to be the thickos who insist on driving everywhere. One of
> them said to me a while ago, "I drive everywhere otherwise people will think
> I am poor".

That seems to presuppose that she has some journeys (beyong trips to the
pillar bax or walking for exercise) that could feasibly be made on foot.

That's not true for everyone.

> Yet she often does not have the money for fuel. I hope this
> illustrates the type of person I mean.

Not really. We are all well aware that there are lots of poor people around.
From: JNugent on 20 May 2010 13:09
Dave Plowman wrote:
> In article <segav5hv40fheja1rl8vg92h3690uqd9np(a)4ax.com>,
> ChelseaTractorMan <mr.c.tractor(a)hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Thu, 20 May 2010 14:47:32 +0100, Dave Plowman
>> <dave(a)davesound.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>>> ...though only because they are an improvement on the corner shop
>>>> (something a true believer absolutely *will not* hear).
>>> I have a decent size Waitrose and Sainsbury within walking distance -
>>> both on the high street. There's no real reason they have to be 'out of
>>> town'.
>
>> not out of town, but not in walking distance. Think about how many
>> customers each needs to be profitable and its obvious they have to be
>> a fair way apart. This means the typical way to use them is to drive
>> and buy a bootload of stuff in one go. Our walkable local high street
>> has neither and is set to have less and less due to the creation of
>> Bluewater shopping mall, which is "out of town".
>
> There you have it. Build an out of town shopping paradise so people drive
> to it and the high street closes. Then when petrol etc becomes so
> expensive there's no option - and it's rarely an option for the elderly or
> those who don't have a car. It's basically a recipe for disaster.

Go on... what is your proffered and preferred alternative?

And would it maintain realistic and practical freedom to travel for the majority?




[This should be interesting.]
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