So what is a 'Full Service History'?
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From: Adrian on 15 Jun 2010 02:33 Nick Finnigan <nix(a)genie.co.uk> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: >>>> But it's amazing how a good valeter can make the worst shed look good >>>> after a bit of spit and polish! >>> <shrug> If you can't be arsed to look beyond the shiny-shiny, it's >>> probably as well you buy new cars. >> And just how do you 'look beyond that' within the constraints of the >> usual car-buying experience? You can hardly start stripping an engine >> down, or taking the wheels off, can you? A steam cleaned engine will >> look immaculate even though it may have been oil-soaked when brought >> in. > Look at the tyres - make, size, age, tread, sidewall wear including > spare; look at the brake pads and disks; that's often a big clue about > how the vehicle has been maintained. Look at the suspension, steering > and the rest of the bits underneath. If it needs to be explained, I fear for the quality of "servicing" Kev is doing. Still, his Chinese teflonFreds fit nicely into that first point, Nick...
From: Ret. on 15 Jun 2010 03:08 bod wrote: > Ret. wrote: >> bod wrote: >>> Adrian wrote: >>>> bod <bodron57(a)tiscali.co.uk> gurgled happily, sounding much like >>>> they were saying: >>>> >>>>>>> If a seller states that a car has FSH and then you check it >>>>>>> personally >>>>>>> and it hasn't, then you simply avoid buying 'anything' from that >>>>>>> seller....simple. >>>> >>>>>> But if FSH just means "All the paperwork for the handful of >>>>>> maintenance I've ever bothered giving it" - as, it seems, it does >>>>>> when selling - then surely there's no problem? >>>> >>>>> But a FSH to me, means a full service at least yearly >>>> >>>> "at least yearly"? Bear in mind that modern service schedules are >>>> often 20k miles or two years. >>>> >>>> Can we agree on "to the schedule"? >>>> >>>>> besides of course any other repairs/maintenance etc, in addition. >>>>> >>>>> If the history falls short of that criteria, then it cannot be >>>>> classed as full, IMO. >>>> >>>> So you're agreeing with me that Kev's friend is a deliberately >>>> disingenous slug? >>>> >>>> >>> >>> I'd certainly agree that he was being disingenuous, yes. >> >> Without any formal definition of 'FSH' I cannot see how you can claim >> that. If car salesmen want specific information - then they should >> both ask for that specific information - and check it prior to >> creating a contract. >> >> > > Shouldn't 'Full' mean what it says on the tin? Which brings me back to the heading of the thread. If a ten year old car has only had three services during its life - but the book has been stamped, and invoices kept, of those services - then the car has a full service history. There is a record of every service it has had... Without an official definition of FSH - it can be interpreted in several different ways - as that link elsewhere on the thread makes clear. If a salesman wants to know whether the trade-in has received regular scheduled services according to manufacturer's recommendations, and carried out by a dealer or independent garage - then he should request that information clearly and precisely. My car has been serviced since new meticulously according to the manufacturer's recommendations - and to a far higher standard than at any garage - by myself. Each service has been recorded and receipts kept. If a salesman asks me if the car has a 'FSH' - then I don't really see why I should have to answer anything other than 'yes' - because it *does* have a FSH. -- Kev
From: Ret. on 15 Jun 2010 03:11 bod wrote: > Mortimer wrote: >> "bod" <bodron57(a)tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message >> news:87nj8gFrg4U1(a)mid.individual.net... >>> But a FSH to me, means a full service at least yearly, besides of >>> course any other repairs/maintenance etc, in addition. >>> >>> If the history falls short of that criteria, then it cannot be >>> classed as full, IMO. >> >> Yes, I'd class FSH as being serviced according to the published >> schedule - every x thousand miles and/or every y months - together >> with details of any other work that might have been required in >> between services, due to unexpected failure/wear such as clutch, fan >> belt, brakes. > > Yes, you've put it more eloquently than me. Totally agree. Nothing there about *who* carries out the work. So I take it that you would agree that properly carried out DIY servicing also constitutes a FSH - without any need for the 'trader-in' to explain that? -- Kev
From: Ret. on 15 Jun 2010 03:20 Adrian wrote: > Nick Finnigan <nix(a)genie.co.uk> gurgled happily, sounding much like > they were saying: > >>>>> But it's amazing how a good valeter can make the worst shed look >>>>> good after a bit of spit and polish! > >>>> <shrug> If you can't be arsed to look beyond the shiny-shiny, it's >>>> probably as well you buy new cars. > >>> And just how do you 'look beyond that' within the constraints of the >>> usual car-buying experience? You can hardly start stripping an >>> engine down, or taking the wheels off, can you? A steam cleaned >>> engine will look immaculate even though it may have been oil-soaked >>> when brought in. > >> Look at the tyres - make, size, age, tread, sidewall wear including >> spare; look at the brake pads and disks; that's often a big clue >> about how the vehicle has been maintained. Look at the suspension, >> steering and the rest of the bits underneath. > > If it needs to be explained, I fear for the quality of "servicing" > Kev is doing. Still, his Chinese teflonFreds fit nicely into that > first point, Nick... And, of course, it's utterly unknown for a trader to put new tyres on a second hand car? What on earth has the condition of the pads and disks got to do with the price of bread? I can tell you now that my front pads are two/thirds worn and the front disks are within 1mm of the minimum width. When I next replace the pads I will also replace the disks. But what would the condition of those pads/disks tell a prospective purchaser? Nothing at all that's what. And, again, what does 'looking at' the suspension and steering tell you? I suppose if someone has been off-roading in his Ford Focus there might be some obvious signs of damage - but otherwise a visual inspection will tell you nothing. In any case - how many prospective buyers are capable of going to those lengths? I tell you again that the Federal tyres I have on my car are turning out to be excellent. They are wearing well and uniformally, are extremely quiet, and I have experienced no problems with grip on either wet or dry roads. Pontificating about tyres that you have no experience of is stupid. -- Kev
From: bod on 15 Jun 2010 03:26
Ret. wrote: > bod wrote: >> Ret. wrote: >>> bod wrote: >>>> Adrian wrote: >>>>> bod <bodron57(a)tiscali.co.uk> gurgled happily, sounding much like >>>>> they were saying: >>>>> >>>>>>>> If a seller states that a car has FSH and then you check it >>>>>>>> personally >>>>>>>> and it hasn't, then you simply avoid buying 'anything' from that >>>>>>>> seller....simple. >>>>> >>>>>>> But if FSH just means "All the paperwork for the handful of >>>>>>> maintenance I've ever bothered giving it" - as, it seems, it does >>>>>>> when selling - then surely there's no problem? >>>>> >>>>>> But a FSH to me, means a full service at least yearly >>>>> >>>>> "at least yearly"? Bear in mind that modern service schedules are >>>>> often 20k miles or two years. >>>>> >>>>> Can we agree on "to the schedule"? >>>>> >>>>>> besides of course any other repairs/maintenance etc, in addition. >>>>>> >>>>>> If the history falls short of that criteria, then it cannot be >>>>>> classed as full, IMO. >>>>> >>>>> So you're agreeing with me that Kev's friend is a deliberately >>>>> disingenous slug? >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> I'd certainly agree that he was being disingenuous, yes. >>> >>> Without any formal definition of 'FSH' I cannot see how you can claim >>> that. If car salesmen want specific information - then they should >>> both ask for that specific information - and check it prior to >>> creating a contract. >>> >>> >> >> Shouldn't 'Full' mean what it says on the tin? > > Which brings me back to the heading of the thread. If a ten year old car > has only had three services during its life - but the book has been > stamped, and invoices kept, of those services - then the car has a full > service history. There is a record of every service it has had... > > Without an official definition of FSH - it can be interpreted in several > different ways - as that link elsewhere on the thread makes clear. > > If a salesman wants to know whether the trade-in has received regular > scheduled services according to manufacturer's recommendations, and > carried out by a dealer or independent garage - then he should request > that information clearly and precisely. > > My car has been serviced since new meticulously according to the > manufacturer's recommendations - and to a far higher standard than at > any garage - by myself. Each service has been recorded and receipts > kept. If a salesman asks me if the car has a 'FSH' - then I don't really > see why I should have to answer anything other than 'yes' - because it > *does* have a FSH. > > But there's the problem Kev, because you've done most of the services, you're car has not got a 'proven' FSH. You may have done it to a high standard, but you don't have those magic franked documents to prove it was done on schedule etc. Although I don't doubt your sincerity regarding the servicing, you don't have a complete set of records to qualify it as FSH (technically). Bod |