Toyota blocks access to 'black box' data
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From: fred on 8 Mar 2010 23:30 kludge(a)panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in news:hn48h0$1c5$1(a)panix2.panix.com: > In article <Xns9D35BEE5EFD51fred(a)127.0.0.1>, fred <fred(a)bedrock.rock> > wrote: >>kludge(a)panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in >>> >>> Sadly not. In fact, I see the military buying field radios that >>> Icom won't even provide service information on. They just pull the >>> modules out and send them off to Japan for rework.... >> >>I never said anything about the military, I was talking about the >>public service. The fact that the military doesn't exercise it's >>weight on that is just silly A sign of where your tax money actually >>*does* get wasted. > > Civilian agencies are even worse. Part of the issue also is the fact > that the procurement people have no idea what they are buying > (combined with the fact that most of the salespeople have no idea what > they are selling) and don't really think about long term costs. > >>Another related point: the military sure as hell does exercise such >>power on larger contracts which may indeed be why they don't bother >>here. What's the radio cost retail? $50-$100? > > That's off by a figure of magnitude or two for typical field radio > sets. A great part of that cost is borne by the fact that they are > small production items and don't get the kind of economies of scale > that consumer products do. Hell, the battery pack for the cheapest > handheld radio around, the PRC-127, is more than $100. It doesn't > come with schematics either. > > Thirty years ago, everything came with full field and depot repair > docs. It's not like that any more. Who knows why then. Perhaps some general's son's company or senators favorite campaign funder.
From: APLer on 8 Mar 2010 23:31 kludge(a)panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in news:hn488r$1o8$1(a)panix2.panix.com: > In article <Xns9D35BF5CC40B7fred(a)127.0.0.1>, fred <fred(a)bedrock.rock> > wrote: >>> >>An automotive and/or electronic engineer employed by the government. >>They *do* exist you know - government employees with useful degrees. >>Do you think they rely on uneducated paper pushers any time there's a >>plane crash? > > No, and that in short is the difference between the NTSB (which > investigates plane crashes and the occasional auto accident) and the > DOT (which operates NHTSA and a lot of other transportation > organizations run by uneducated paper pushers). > > The push to replace engineers with uneducated paper pushers and with > lawyers at the US Patent office and the FCC has pretty much been > complete, though. There was a substantial amount of pressure applied > in the eighties and nineties to eliminate technical people in a number > of agencies. It was combined by rising salaries in the private sector > too, for technical folks. --scott > Then the US is f*cked IMHO. You can't run a decent country without a decent government period.
From: C. E. White on 9 Mar 2010 12:10 "fred" <fred(a)bedrock.rock> wrote in message news:Xns9D35BF5CC40B7fred(a)127.0.0.1... > "C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)mindspring.com> wrote in > news:hn2t1s$43j$1(a)news.eternal-september.org: > >> >> "fred" <fred(a)bedrock.rock> wrote in message >> news:Xns9D34B4D952E36fred(a)127.0.0.1... >> >>> All the government has to do is say, "As part of being allowed to >>> sell >>> cars here, you are required to provide the source code and circuit >>> diagrams for all electronics in your cars to DOT upon release of >>> the >>> model to the market." It may very well already be true. >> >> Let's say that all car manufacturers give all this information to >> NHTSA, who at NHTSA is going to read and understand it? >> > An automotive and/or electronic engineer employed by the government. > They *do* exist you know - government employees with useful degrees. > Do you think they rely on uneducated paper pushers any time there's > a > plane crash? No the same! How many planes crashes a year? 50? They have a dedicated teams of experts for that., maybe 50 people. Air planes may be complicated, but they make changes reatively slowly. How many experts would it take to review all the documents from all the auto manufacturers? I suppose they could have a team of experts available, but wouldn't they just request the documents they need at the time of an investigation? I can't see the value in piling up reams of documentation that that no one would have time to evaluate. Ed
From: Elder on 12 Mar 2010 13:50 In article <hmr5ot$96q$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>, cewhite3 @mindspring.com says... > Of course this brings up the question of what is really the correct > term for residents of the United States of America so as to avoid > being confused with residents o North, Central, and South America. > Considering you heavy mix of races and backgrounds, I think you should go with USAsians. To upset the white power freaks. -- Carl Robson Get cashback on your purchases Topcashback http://www.TopCashBack.co.uk/skraggy_uk/ref/index.htm Greasypalm http://www.greasypalm.co.uk/r/?l=1006553
From: ycleptor2 on 12 Mar 2010 14:15
On Mar 7, 5:49 pm, fred <f...(a)bedrock.rock> wrote: > john <johngd...(a)hotmail.com> wrote innews:0dbebe1e-d08d-4e40-94b0-f3708655765e(a)c37g2000prb.googlegroups.com: > All the government has to do is say, "As part of being allowed to sell > cars here, you are required to provide the source code and circuit > diagrams for all electronics in your cars to DOT upon release of the > model to the market." It may very well already be true. I posted this link and the quote more than a month ago. Toyota will be on board with EDRs, in about two years. > Another Toyota approach might be to get on board with its event data recorders. Here's a press release from Toyota from Sept. 2008 on its EDRs: http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/event-data-recorders-93447.aspx Here's what they say about their EDR program: "A specialized tool set is required to read out data that may be contained within an EDR equipped ECU. At this time, there is only one prototype Toyota readout tool in the United States and only specially designated Toyota personnel use it. The tool set has not yet been scientifically validated, and at this time, Toyota does not have confidence that the readout reports it generates are accurate. "Nevertheless, Toyota will access the data when it receives a written request from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) for its Special Crash Investigations program, but only with NHTSA's assurance that the vehicle owner has given written permission and no personal identifying information about the owner will be published. Toyota also will access the data to assist law enforcement in criminal investigations, when presented with a valid court order or a search warrant. "In accordance with a 2006 NHTSA rule stating that if a manufacturer equips a vehicle with an EDR, then a tool must be made commercially available to download the data from that EDR. The compliance date is Sept. 1, 2012, the start of the 2013 model." Sometimes it's difficult to get the automobile owner's permission to release the data to NHTSA. Cheers, MD .. |