Toyota blocks access to 'black box' data
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From: Steve W. on 5 Mar 2010 22:54 Scott Dorsey wrote: > Steve W. <csr684(a)NOTyahoo.com> wrote: >> No reverse engineering required. The tools used to read the GM data are >> available to anyone who wants to spend the money. Same with BMW. > > Sure, you can buy the tools from GM. Or you can buy the tools from someone > who reverse-engineered GM's interface. But the interface is not open. > >> GM has had EDRs in vehicles since 1980, They updated the units and the >> data retrieval system in 1995, If your GM vehicle has an airbag in it, >> it has an EDR. The public unit to pull the data that would be useful in >> an accident has been on the market since 1999. The unit used by the GM >> engineers to pull ALL the data is also available to dealers, police, >> insurance companies(if the standard data set isn't enough, it usually is >> MORE than enough). > > I want way more than that. I want all the fuel injection system parameters. > I want the transmission diagnostics and maybe I might even want to adjust > the transmission setpoints for diagnostic purposes. You can do a lot of that using the Tech2 as a pass through with the PC interface. You can also pull those files through the GM network if you have access. > > GM makes public only a rudimentary interface. There is a lot more that > they don't have open. In many ways I don't blame them. I can imagine all the headaches from people who "just wanted to tweak this setting" can cause. Now if they released the code and then said that anyone using it to adjust there vehicle would void the coverage can you imagine the outcry from the lawyers and owners who played with the system. PLUS the EPA would likely get involved since it would be considered to be emissions tampering. -- Steve W.
From: jim beam on 6 Mar 2010 09:47 On 03/05/2010 07:18 AM, Tom Adams wrote: > On Mar 4, 9:42�pm, john<johngd...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >> That must be Toyota's way of taking the 5th! >> >> Before she died, the 5-foot-2, 125-pound woman told relatives she was >> practically standing with both feet on the brake pedal but could not >> stop the car from slamming into a building. Records confirm that >> emergency personnel found Grossman with both feet on the brake pedal. >> >> Toyota has for years blocked access to data stored in devices similar >> to airline "black boxes" that could explain crashes blamed on sudden >> unintended acceleration, according to an Associated Press review of >> lawsuits nationwide and interviews with auto crash experts. >> >> Full article at:http://finance.yahoo.com/news/AP-IMPACT-Toyota-secretive-on-apf-12944... > > Toyota's EDRs probably are lousy. The main reason for car makers > putting in an EDR in the first place was for accident analysis to > avoid liability and sort our fact from fiction. The fact that Toyota > has had trouble doing this for the accelerator problem is evidence of > lack of useful data in the EDR. Its not like Toyota can't read the > black box in their own cars. exactly. -- nomina rutrum rutrum
From: jim beam on 6 Mar 2010 09:48 On 03/05/2010 05:03 AM, C. E. White wrote: > "john"<johngdole(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:0dbebe1e-d08d-4e40-94b0-f3708655765e(a)c37g2000prb.googlegroups.com... >> That must be Toyota's way of taking the 5th! >> >> Before she died, the 5-foot-2, 125-pound woman told relatives she >> was >> practically standing with both feet on the brake pedal but could not >> stop the car from slamming into a building. Records confirm that >> emergency personnel found Grossman with both feet on the brake >> pedal. >> >> Toyota has for years blocked access to data stored in devices >> similar >> to airline "black boxes" that could explain crashes blamed on sudden >> unintended acceleration, according to an Associated Press review of >> lawsuits nationwide and interviews with auto crash experts. >> >> Full article at: >> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/AP-IMPACT-Toyota-secretive-on-apf-1294427692.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=1&asset=&ccode= > > Toyota has agreed to make the equipment needed to read the black box > data available. From > http://www.autoweek.com/article/20100225/CARNEWS/100229931 : > > "Reacting to criticism that data from black-box crash recorders in its > vehicles can be accessed only by the company, Toyota Motor Corp. is > moving to ship hundreds of data-decoding machines to the United States > and make them commercially available to help diagnose vehicle > problems." > > Ed > > astroturfer ed trying to look like he's a concerned citizen. -- nomina rutrum rutrum
From: jim beam on 6 Mar 2010 10:35 On 03/05/2010 06:51 AM, C. E. White wrote: > "Elmo P. Shagnasty"<elmop(a)nastydesigns.com> wrote in message > news:elmop-84E137.08334305032010(a)nothing.attdns.com... >> In article >> <4e08f574-e7ae-4f01-a649-30a0a6cf40ec(a)t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>, >> ransley<Mark_Ransley(a)Yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>> Buy a Ford feed 10 US families, Buy a Toyota feed 10 Jap >>> families. >> >> Buy a Ford feed 100 Mexican families, buy a Toyota and feed 10 >> American >> families. > > Neither is true. And the fact is, despite assembling some cars in > Mexico, Ford averages the highest domestic content of any company > selling cars in the US. > > Let do a quick fact check...The Ford Hermosillo Mexico plant employs > around 2,700 people (probably not all Mexican, but we will ignore > that). The plant produces around 210,000 Fusion, Milans, and MKZ's a > year. Do the math, it takes almost 80 cars to pay the salary of one > worker for the year. So I guess you could say, buy a Ford Fusion, feed > 0.0125 Mexican families for a year. Or buy a Ford Fusion and fedd a > Mexican family for 4.6 days. Of course, at the same time you will also > be feeding familes in the US, China, Japan, etc., etc. > > BTW, last time I checked, Mexico was consideredd part of North > America. I think Mexicans and Canadians can be considered "Americans." > Of course this brings up the question of what is really the correct > term for residents of the United States of America so as to avoid > being confused with residents o North, Central, and South America. > > The US Government has actively encouraged US companies to set up shop > in Mexico. If you don't like the practice, you should write your > Congress person. > > Ed > > straight from detroit, right ed? you're not an astroturfer! -- nomina rutrum rutrum
From: Tom Adams on 7 Mar 2010 06:09
On Mar 5, 4:30 pm, "Steve W." <csr...(a)NOTyahoo.com> wrote: > Tom Adams wrote: > > On Mar 5, 11:30 am, "Steve W." <csr...(a)NOTyahoo.com> wrote: > >> Tom Adams wrote: > >>> On Mar 4, 9:42 pm, john <johngd...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > >>>> That must be Toyota's way of taking the 5th! > >>>> Before she died, the 5-foot-2, 125-pound woman told relatives she was > >>>> practically standing with both feet on the brake pedal but could not > >>>> stop the car from slamming into a building. Records confirm that > >>>> emergency personnel found Grossman with both feet on the brake pedal.. > >>>> Toyota has for years blocked access to data stored in devices similar > >>>> to airline "black boxes" that could explain crashes blamed on sudden > >>>> unintended acceleration, according to an Associated Press review of > >>>> lawsuits nationwide and interviews with auto crash experts. > >>>> Full article at:http://finance.yahoo.com/news/AP-IMPACT-Toyota-secretive-on-apf-12944... > >>> Toyota's EDRs probably are lousy. The main reason for car makers > >>> putting in an EDR in the first place was for accident analysis to > >>> avoid liability and sort our fact from fiction. The fact that Toyota > >>> has had trouble doing this for the accelerator problem is evidence of > >>> lack of useful data in the EDR. Its not like Toyota can't read the > >>> black box in their own cars. > >> Most of the EDR data I have read or seen off vehicles is pretty good info. > >> For most GM vehicles it shows a LOT of info that really isn't needed for > >> accident use as well. > >> The last one I read was from an Escalade and showed all of the same info > >> from the ECM that you would get reading the ECM with a good scan tool. > >> Plus it showed the brake status, ABS status, wheel speed data, seat belt > >> info, air bag info and what sensors set off the bags. > > >> I would bet a BIG chunk of money that Toyotas can show all the same > >> data. I would also suspect that they would rather NOT have anyone read > >> the data from the cars involved because it probably would hurt them a > >> LOT. If it was favorable data they would trot it out and show the > >> public, but if you read most of the items in the news every time they > >> have been ordered to show the data in court they have settled the case > >> out of court. Not a good sign. > > > No car company give up the EDR data unless they have to so nothing new > > here. > > Not sure what your saying. Toyota and Honda are the only two mentioned > who DON'T allow the data to be read easily. You can buy the reader and > the software NOW for most of the others. I think some of the car makers get the EDRs cheap from Bosch and Bosch also sells the reader. Toyota rolls their own. > > > > > But Toyota would watn to read the data, why have the EDR box if you > > don't want to read it? > > -- > Steve W.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - |