for the guys that are into recreational oil changing...
in [Technical]
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From: jim beam on 4 Apr 2010 13:07 On 04/04/2010 10:01 AM, hls wrote: > > <clare(a)snyder.on.ca> wrote in message > news:r9ghr55t8btmimd0s9a1ki9q8n1t72tbnf(a)4ax.com... >> On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 08:05:22 -0500, "hls" <hls(a)nospam.nix> wrote: >> >>> >>> "jim beam" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message >>> news:Cq-dnaDhIbm58yrWnZ2dnUVZ_v4AAAAA(a)speakeasy.net... >>>> On 04/02/2010 07:47 AM, ACAR wrote: >>>> <snip for clarity> >>>>> Toyota's oil related sludge/gelling issues were pretty well >>>>> publicized. However, I think it is true that not one problem was cited >>>>> by anyone who changed their own oil. >>>> >>>> that statement is worth significant examination: "sludge", any >>>> engine, is >>>> an oil problem, not mechanical. if toyota had been sold a job lot of >>>> defective oil or if iffy-lube were being more ruthlessly inattentive >>>> than >>>> normal, that would indeed cause the problem. >>>> >>> >>> So you are trying to say that the problematic Toyotas would not have >>> sludged if they had been using synthetic oils? I doubt you have any >>> proof at all for that statement. >>> >> He is correct though - synthetic oils at the recommended interval did >> not sludge - nor dird regular oils at the severe duty schedule. >> That has been proven time and again. > > Toyota, which does not have a recommendation for synthetics in my book, > claims that the problems were that the owners did not maintain their > vehicles > properly. There is evidence that there was more to it than that (PCV > system modifications). > > I have seen no data with regard to synthetics in the problematic runs > of Toyotas. Have you actually SEEN the data, and can you cite your > source? where's yours? -- nomina rutrum rutrum
From: Ed Pawlowski on 4 Apr 2010 14:02 "Scott Dorsey" <kludge(a)panix.com> wrote > > I had a Chrysler Laser which was notorious for turbocharger problems. The > oil would bake in the turbocharger after the engine was turned off, and > clog it up with varnish. I used mostly synthetic oil in the thing for > years and never had a turbocharger problem. One of the problems in pissing contests is that each participant looks at things from their own perspective. You bring up a good point there of an exception to most rules. Turbo engines need the best oils for the high temperatures. Exceptions also apply to the guy that travels a mile to work in -40 temperatures and the guy that commutes 90 miles across Death Valley.
From: Scott Dorsey on 4 Apr 2010 14:16 Ed Pawlowski <esp(a)snetnospam.net> wrote: >"Scott Dorsey" <kludge(a)panix.com> wrote >> >> I had a Chrysler Laser which was notorious for turbocharger problems. The >> oil would bake in the turbocharger after the engine was turned off, and >> clog it up with varnish. I used mostly synthetic oil in the thing for >> years and never had a turbocharger problem. > >One of the problems in pissing contests is that each participant looks at >things from their own perspective. You bring up a good point there of an >exception to most rules. Turbo engines need the best oils for the high >temperatures. Exceptions also apply to the guy that travels a mile to work >in -40 temperatures and the guy that commutes 90 miles across Death Valley. Yup. Clearly the Toyotas that sludged up were also an exception to the rule. The question, then, is why. If it's a flow rate and temperature issue, synthetic is a solution, just as it was in the turbo that had a flow rate and temperature issue. If it's something else, maybe it's not. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
From: Bob Jones on 4 Apr 2010 14:18 "jim beam" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message news:TuqdnZbV97mWJiXWnZ2dnUVZ_uednZ2d(a)speakeasy.net... > On 04/04/2010 08:33 AM, Bob Jones wrote: >> "jim beam"<me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message >> news:Cq-dnd_hIbka8yrWnZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net... >>> On 04/01/2010 04:33 PM, Bob Jones wrote: >>>> "jim beam"<me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message >>>> news:XdqdnRJTWIGpPCnWnZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net... >>>>> On 03/31/2010 05:33 PM, Bob Jones wrote: >>>>>> "jim beam"<me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message >>>>>> news:ZbmdnZS5tr6ESy_WnZ2dnUVZ_tAAAAAA(a)speakeasy.net... >>>>>>> On 03/30/2010 04:55 PM, Bob Jones wrote: >>>>>>>> "Elle"<honda.lioness(a)gmail.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>> news:3ebb0d52-9d5c-4fda-9d4c-e7d329ca1792(a)i25g2000yqm.googlegroups.com... >>>>>>>> On Mar 29, 6:41 pm, jim beam<m...(a)privacy.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>> http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/TechnologyDevelopment/OPPTD_FLY_High-Efficienc... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The article linked above is a good read and helps reinforce my >>>>>>>>> belief >>>>>>>>> about going with the manufacturer's recommendations on oil change >>>>>>>>> intervals, or even longer. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The owner's manual for my 2003 Civic says to change the oil every >>>>>>>>> 10k >>>>>>>>> miles or every year, whichever comes first, using 5W20 >>>>>>>>> non-synthetic, >>>>>>>>> and assuming no extreme conditions, per what is explained to be >>>>>>>>> "extreme" in the owner's manual. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The wikipedia entry for "motor oil" talks about how oil standards >>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> changed, driving the increasing interval over the decades. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That may be the case for normal driving condition. Most people >>>>>>>> drive >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> severe conditions. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> nonsense - by definition, "normal" is what most people drive in. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Severe conditions are defined >>>>> >>>>> defined by whom? >>>>> >>>> >>>> Look up Honda's manual. >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> as follows: >>>>>> >>>>>> - Driving less than 5 miles per trip or less than 10 miles per trip >>>>>> in >>>>>> freezing temperatures. >>>>>> - Driving in extreme hot (over 90F) conditions. >>>>>> - Extensive idling or long periods of stop-and-go driving. >>>>>> - Driving in muddy, dusty, de-iced, or mountain roads. >>>>> >>>>> i googled for those definitions, and guess what - they all came up on >>>>> iffy-lube type websites selling you 3000 mile oil changes. >>>>> >>>>> bottom line - it's analysis that trumps all cant, sales, superstition >>>>> or >>>>> hysteria on this subject. if the analysis says you can run your oil >>>>> longer, and per my original post, most people can, that's the end of >>>>> the >>>>> story. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I believe they apply to most drivers in this country. Are you saying >>>>>> no? >>>>> >>>>> yes, i'm saying no. it's illogical nonsense. >>>>> >>>> >>>> We just have to disagree then. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> you "disagree" with the facts?????? where can we find your contrary >>> research published? >>> >> >> I don't need to do any research. Honda has already done that. > > then you have a reading comprehension problem. because honda have indeed > done plenty of research and carefully written it into your owners manual, > but you evidently don't seem to understand what they've said. > From someone who has never even read the manual? I got to hand it to you. > >> If you want to >> come up with your own, knock yourself out. > > based on oil analysis, i have this: > http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024(a)N00/4291579733/ > Send it to Honda. May be they will rewrite the manual based on your findings. If the manual says changing oil every 20k miles, I will be the first one to follow.
From: jim beam on 4 Apr 2010 14:21
On 04/04/2010 11:18 AM, Bob Jones wrote: > "jim beam"<me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message > news:TuqdnZbV97mWJiXWnZ2dnUVZ_uednZ2d(a)speakeasy.net... >> On 04/04/2010 08:33 AM, Bob Jones wrote: >>> "jim beam"<me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message >>> news:Cq-dnd_hIbka8yrWnZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net... >>>> On 04/01/2010 04:33 PM, Bob Jones wrote: >>>>> "jim beam"<me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message >>>>> news:XdqdnRJTWIGpPCnWnZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net... >>>>>> On 03/31/2010 05:33 PM, Bob Jones wrote: >>>>>>> "jim beam"<me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:ZbmdnZS5tr6ESy_WnZ2dnUVZ_tAAAAAA(a)speakeasy.net... >>>>>>>> On 03/30/2010 04:55 PM, Bob Jones wrote: >>>>>>>>> "Elle"<honda.lioness(a)gmail.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>> news:3ebb0d52-9d5c-4fda-9d4c-e7d329ca1792(a)i25g2000yqm.googlegroups.com... >>>>>>>>> On Mar 29, 6:41 pm, jim beam<m...(a)privacy.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/TechnologyDevelopment/OPPTD_FLY_High-Efficienc... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The article linked above is a good read and helps reinforce my >>>>>>>>>> belief >>>>>>>>>> about going with the manufacturer's recommendations on oil change >>>>>>>>>> intervals, or even longer. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The owner's manual for my 2003 Civic says to change the oil every >>>>>>>>>> 10k >>>>>>>>>> miles or every year, whichever comes first, using 5W20 >>>>>>>>>> non-synthetic, >>>>>>>>>> and assuming no extreme conditions, per what is explained to be >>>>>>>>>> "extreme" in the owner's manual. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The wikipedia entry for "motor oil" talks about how oil standards >>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>> changed, driving the increasing interval over the decades. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That may be the case for normal driving condition. Most people >>>>>>>>> drive >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> severe conditions. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> nonsense - by definition, "normal" is what most people drive in. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Severe conditions are defined >>>>>> >>>>>> defined by whom? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Look up Honda's manual. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> as follows: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - Driving less than 5 miles per trip or less than 10 miles per trip >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> freezing temperatures. >>>>>>> - Driving in extreme hot (over 90F) conditions. >>>>>>> - Extensive idling or long periods of stop-and-go driving. >>>>>>> - Driving in muddy, dusty, de-iced, or mountain roads. >>>>>> >>>>>> i googled for those definitions, and guess what - they all came up on >>>>>> iffy-lube type websites selling you 3000 mile oil changes. >>>>>> >>>>>> bottom line - it's analysis that trumps all cant, sales, superstition >>>>>> or >>>>>> hysteria on this subject. if the analysis says you can run your oil >>>>>> longer, and per my original post, most people can, that's the end of >>>>>> the >>>>>> story. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I believe they apply to most drivers in this country. Are you saying >>>>>>> no? >>>>>> >>>>>> yes, i'm saying no. it's illogical nonsense. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> We just have to disagree then. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> you "disagree" with the facts?????? where can we find your contrary >>>> research published? >>>> >>> >>> I don't need to do any research. Honda has already done that. >> >> then you have a reading comprehension problem. because honda have indeed >> done plenty of research and carefully written it into your owners manual, >> but you evidently don't seem to understand what they've said. >> > > From someone who has never even read the manual? I got to hand it to you. wow dude - that's chutzpah! > >> >>> If you want to >>> come up with your own, knock yourself out. >> >> based on oil analysis, i have this: >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024(a)N00/4291579733/ >> > > Send it to Honda. May be they will rewrite the manual based on your > findings. If the manual says changing oil every 20k miles, I will be the > first one to follow. eat your own dog food. do oil analysis. then you won't need to "follow". -- nomina rutrum rutrum |