for the guys that are into recreational oil changing...
in [Technical]
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From: jim beam on 3 Apr 2010 12:36 On 04/01/2010 04:33 PM, Bob Jones wrote: > "jim beam"<me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message > news:XdqdnRJTWIGpPCnWnZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net... >> On 03/31/2010 05:33 PM, Bob Jones wrote: >>> "jim beam"<me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message >>> news:ZbmdnZS5tr6ESy_WnZ2dnUVZ_tAAAAAA(a)speakeasy.net... >>>> On 03/30/2010 04:55 PM, Bob Jones wrote: >>>>> "Elle"<honda.lioness(a)gmail.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:3ebb0d52-9d5c-4fda-9d4c-e7d329ca1792(a)i25g2000yqm.googlegroups.com... >>>>> On Mar 29, 6:41 pm, jim beam<m...(a)privacy.net> wrote: >>>>>> http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/TechnologyDevelopment/OPPTD_FLY_High-Efficienc... >>>>> >>>>>> The article linked above is a good read and helps reinforce my belief >>>>>> about going with the manufacturer's recommendations on oil change >>>>>> intervals, or even longer. >>>>> >>>>>> The owner's manual for my 2003 Civic says to change the oil every 10k >>>>>> miles or every year, whichever comes first, using 5W20 non-synthetic, >>>>>> and assuming no extreme conditions, per what is explained to be >>>>>> "extreme" in the owner's manual. >>>>> >>>>>> The wikipedia entry for "motor oil" talks about how oil standards have >>>>>> changed, driving the increasing interval over the decades. >>>>> >>>>> That may be the case for normal driving condition. Most people drive in >>>>> severe conditions. >>>> >>>> nonsense - by definition, "normal" is what most people drive in. >>>> >>> >>> Severe conditions are defined >> >> defined by whom? >> > > Look up Honda's manual. > >> >>> as follows: >>> >>> - Driving less than 5 miles per trip or less than 10 miles per trip in >>> freezing temperatures. >>> - Driving in extreme hot (over 90F) conditions. >>> - Extensive idling or long periods of stop-and-go driving. >>> - Driving in muddy, dusty, de-iced, or mountain roads. >> >> i googled for those definitions, and guess what - they all came up on >> iffy-lube type websites selling you 3000 mile oil changes. >> >> bottom line - it's analysis that trumps all cant, sales, superstition or >> hysteria on this subject. if the analysis says you can run your oil >> longer, and per my original post, most people can, that's the end of the >> story. >> >> >>> >>> I believe they apply to most drivers in this country. Are you saying no? >> >> yes, i'm saying no. it's illogical nonsense. >> > > We just have to disagree then. > > you "disagree" with the facts?????? where can we find your contrary research published? -- nomina rutrum rutrum
From: jim beam on 3 Apr 2010 12:57 On 04/01/2010 07:27 AM, Iowna Uass wrote: > "jim beam"<me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message > news:3t-dnTTc0qxd1SzWnZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net... >> http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/TechnologyDevelopment/OPPTD_FLY_High-Efficiency-Oil-Filters.cfm >> >> shock, horror, they used oil analysis to arrive at these recommendations! >> >> -- >> nomina rutrum rutrum > > Good post man... Gotta love the way a little article would generate so much > banter. > > As for the high efficiency oil filters, what would be a good brand to go > with? Is the stock honda filter a good choice to stick with? on my civic & crx, i've been using the st3593a filter from woolmort. made here in the u.s. by champion labs, the same people that make filters for bosch and mobil labels. they claim efficiency like this: http://i43.tinypic.com/2kg0mv.jpg this is my 190k mile civic engine using one of these filters for 20k miles. http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024(a)N00/4291579733/ -- nomina rutrum rutrum
From: jim beam on 3 Apr 2010 12:59 On 04/01/2010 12:11 PM, Michael wrote: > On Apr 1, 12:00�pm, dr_jeff<u...(a)msu.edu> wrote: >> Michael wrote: >>> On Mar 29, 5:41 pm, jim beam<m...(a)privacy.net> wrote: >>>> http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/TechnologyDevelopment/OPPTD_FLY_High-Efficienc... >> >>>> shock, horror, they used oil analysis to arrive at these recommendations! >> >>>> -- >>>> nomina rutrum rutrum >> >>> Interesting point: �"The HE filters used in this study claimed >>> filtration of particles to 1-2 [microns], much better than standard >>> filters of 30-50 [microns]. Using standard filters is one reason that >>> motor oil needs to be changed; it gets dirty with small particles >>> which results in engine wear. In this regard, standard filters have >>> not improved over the years compared to significant improvements in >>> motor oil quality. The oil change interval set in warranties is a >>> result of standard filters being the limiting factor, not the motor >>> oil quality. Hence, higher quality filters will help to extend motor >>> oil life to its full potential." >> >>> This raises the question: �would it be safe to keep engine oil for >>> 10,000 miles if you replace JUST the oil filter every 5,000 miles? >> >> The problem is that the oil filter is filtering out the small particles. >> So you still have the small particles going right through the filter. >> >>> Is an HE filter necessary? �Oil analysis comparisons of the HE Fram X2 >>> filter vs. a normal CarQuest filter would have been nice. >> >> Only if the comparisons include small particles. >> >>> Maybe I can do an experiment with my '96 Camry (176k miles). �For my >>> wife's car, the 5,000 mile oil change will remain... >> >> And how are you going to determine the results of the experiment. You >> have an n of 1 (one sample). Not very useful. > > > Good point. > > Then again the ('96) car's seen oil change intervals of 8000 miles > anyway. Was thinking of pulling the valve cover to see how it's > doing. In the absence of HE vs. regular oil filter data, was thinking > of just changing the (regular) filter, leaving the oil in, for say > 8000 miles again. Doesn't the manual specify 7500 miles? Don't have > it on me at the moment... > > >> This doesn't take into account that the additives in the oil get used up. > > > The article implied that oil additives aren't the limiting factor: > it's the oil filter that is the limiting factor. > > Michael filters help, but they're not the only thing - oil stability and chemistry is important too. -- nomina rutrum rutrum
From: jim beam on 3 Apr 2010 13:00 On 04/01/2010 12:39 PM, SMS wrote: > On 01/04/10 11:56 AM, Michael wrote: >> On Mar 29, 5:41 pm, jim beam<m...(a)privacy.net> wrote: >>> http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/TechnologyDevelopment/OPPTD_FLY_High-Efficienc... >>> >>> shock, horror, they used oil analysis to arrive at these >>> recommendations! >>> >>> -- >>> nomina rutrum rutrum >> >> >> >> Interesting point: "The HE filters used in this study claimed >> filtration of particles to 1-2 [microns], much better than standard >> filters of 30-50 [microns]. Using standard filters is one reason that >> motor oil needs to be changed; it gets dirty with small particles >> which results in engine wear. In this regard, standard filters have >> not improved over the years compared to significant improvements in >> motor oil quality. The oil change interval set in warranties is a >> result of standard filters being the limiting factor, not the motor >> oil quality. Hence, higher quality filters will help to extend motor >> oil life to its full potential." >> >> This raises the question: would it be safe to keep engine oil for >> 10,000 miles if you replace JUST the oil filter every 5,000 miles? >> >> Is an HE filter necessary? Oil analysis comparisons of the HE Fram X2 >> filter vs. a normal CarQuest filter would have been nice. >> >> Maybe I can do an experiment with my '96 Camry (176k miles). For my >> wife's car, the 5,000 mile oil change will remain... > > On the 96 Camry it would be easy (assuming a 4 cylinder) because of the > oil filter placement. On a lot of vehicles, changing just the filter > would be messy. generally, it's not if you leave the motor to stand for an hour before you spin the filter off. try this yourself. > > Of course the whole premise is wrong to begin with though. Using > "standard" filters has nothing to do with how often the oil needs to be > changed. -- nomina rutrum rutrum
From: jim beam on 3 Apr 2010 13:05
On 04/01/2010 03:41 PM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote: > In article<4bb4ca50$0$1624$742ec2ed(a)news.sonic.net>, > SMS<scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote: > >> The 5 or 10 miles per trip is if you _exclusively_ do short trips. Ditto >> for idling and stop and go driving. What they're worried about is that >> the water that accumulates in the oil will not be vaporized. A freeway >> drive of 30 minutes or so will take care of the problem with water >> condensing into the oil. > > How often should this freeway trip be made in order to minimize damage > to the engine by water-laden oil? he doesn't know because he's just guessing - he has no data. -- nomina rutrum rutrum |